TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 I’m thinking that for the current state of things that I need to see if I can get an experimental for 30-40k, if that can’t happen then I need to wait until I can comfortably expand the plane budget closer to 70-100k. Need to put eyes on a T18 and see if they look cobbled together for those prices.. I mayyyy find an RV for that range too but from what I’ve seen it’s not very likely under 40k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, TheLachlan said: 10% of purchase price though for the first annual? Even if you get a bang up PPI? I've owned two Mooneys and have never had an annual over $4000. But knock on wood, I probably just jinked myself. The annuals in my M20K 252 have never been over $3000. BUT you have to be prepared and able because shit happens, even with the best PPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoeschen Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 What part of the country do you live/work?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheLachlan said: Yeah that could be pretty stressful living that far on the edge. Sadly, judging by the number of planes rotting away on ramps all over the country, I suspect it's more common than we would like to believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheLachlan said: I’m thinking that for the current state of things that I need to see if I can get an experimental for 30-40k, if that can’t happen then I need to wait until I can comfortably expand the plane budget closer to 70-100k. Need to put eyes on a T18 and see if they look cobbled together for those prices.. I mayyyy find an RV for that range too but from what I’ve seen it’s not very likely under 40k. Be careful with thinking purchase price is what makes it 'affordable.' That's just the ante...the $30-$40K plane could easily cost just as much to own and operate as the $70K one. My rule of thumb: one best be comfortable spending $15K-$20K per year to own and operate a single engine Mooney type aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoeschen Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 Its best not to keep score Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: I've owned two Mooneys and have never had an annual over $4000. But knock on wood, I probably just jinked myself. The annuals in my M20K 252 have never been over $3000. BUT you have to be prepared and able because shit happens, even with the best PPI. I’m wanting to say that’s impressive but also don’t know how much up keep was in between, either way sounds pretty good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Hoeschen said: What part of the country do you live/work? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If you are referring to me, we are all over the place in TX right now, don’t have much of a base, which would also need to change somewhat as I don’t want to be hours away from the plane, kinda defeats the purpose then. We live full time in a nice 42’ 5th wheel and travel a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, MikeOH said: Be careful with thinking purchase price is what makes it 'affordable.' That's just the ante...the $30-$40K plane could easily cost just as much to own and operate as the $70K one. My rule of thumb: one best be comfortable spending $15K-$20K per year to own and operate a single engine Mooney type aircraft. Yeah I’d be thinking about 12-13k for a self maintained experimental and then operating costs like fuel and maintenance Items would be on top of that. 12-13 is payment, hangar, yearly inspection, and insurance for a 30k ish plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoeschen Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 I sure miss the experimental I built, maintained and inspected. Maintenance costs was almost nothing. Fuel, oil and gas, maybe a couple tires. Plus hangar and insurance. Lots of good Flying weather in Texas. Here in the upper midwest a plane without FIKI is pretty much useless as a reliable means of business transportation for half of the year. A Mooney is essentially a four seat RV in terms of performance, efficiency and cost. Good choiceYou’d be better off driving for business than a T-18. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hoeschen said: I sure miss the experimental I built, maintained and inspected. Maintenance costs was almost nothing. Fuel, oil and gas, maybe a couple tires. Plus hangar and insurance. Lots of good Flying weather in Texas. Here in the upper midwest a plane without FIKI is pretty much useless as a reliable means of business transportation for half of the year. A Mooney is essentially a four seat RV in terms of performance, efficiency and cost. Good choice You’d be better off driving for business than a T-18. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Oh? Sounds like you know something about them I should know, care to share more? Also, what did you build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoeschen Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just an uncommon plane with relatively speaking no manufacturer or owner support compared to an RV. If you didn’t build it good luck finding a mechanic with experience working on one. Whereas Mooneys and RVs are a dime a dozen. Heck Id bet theres more RVs flying than Mooneys today.I built a -9A, 2014, one of the top 5 in the world i’d bet. But now flying a Super Viking and loving it. You should hop over to the Super Viking Forum. Might find an undervalued amazing machine in your price range. Had her loaded up at gross weight this weekend with the family climbing out at 1000fpm + at 88 degrees F. and cruising at 160 knots. Not to mention the superb handling! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petegaz40 Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 I’m currently on my second E model. I have owned a Thorp T-18 with 180 hp and a c/s prop. It’s a tight fit but the performance it pretty incredible. It will climb 1000 fpm at 10,000 ft. I use to easily cruise 160 kts and burn 9 gph. It was an easy tail wheel plane to fly but you need to keep your speed up to make that happen. It’s definitely worth looking at them. With that being said, there have been some structural failures so for me I wouldn’t fly them anymore. I’m anal about structural failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 I've owned two Mooneys and have never had an annual over $4000. But knock on wood, I probably just jinked myself. The annuals in my M20K 252 have never been over $3000. BUT you have to be prepared and able because shit happens, even with the best PPI. I spent almost exactly 10%...$6700 1st annual. But I fixed a broken strobe power supply and bad landing light by replacing them all with LEDs...so that was more of an upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 10 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I've owned two Mooneys and have never had an annual over $4000. But knock on wood, I probably just jinked myself. The annuals in my M20K 252 have never been over $3000. BUT you have to be prepared and able because shit happens, even with the best PPI. Joey Cole found some grease slinging down my prop blade. That added a few grand pretty quick once they started snooping around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw1024 Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 I had this similar conversation/debate recently while getting some work done on my F. I was standing around with my A&P and two Cessna owners--206T and a 310 drivers. Both had previous experience in the Vans world. Both said they'd be back in the Vans world again if it wasn't a mission issue with useful load or number of seats. Speed, flight characteristics, fuel burn, low cost maintenance were the highlights for them. My A&P/IA is a big fan as well... Made me start thinking hard about it...wish they had more options for 4 seats...the RV-10 is amazing...but not at that price point for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 If an RV14 could have the cockpit slightly reconfigured to allow for a couple of child sized seats and a little room for baggage... I'd probably have one. On the other hand, I've never been so much as tempted by the RV10. They look goofy to me sitting up on those spindly gear legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Ward Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 18 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I've owned two Mooneys and have never had an annual over $4000. But knock on wood, I probably just jinked myself. The annuals in my M20K 252 have never been over $3000. BUT you have to be prepared and able because shit happens, even with the best PPI. I hear this all the time, "what about a great PPI?" Sure, ok, but I think that's putting too much misplaced agency in the hands of the A&P. Hopefully a PPI helps you find the *really big* stuff. Often, I suspect, it also introduces false negatives: planes that are basically ok, but the results of the PPI tend to scare off a novice buyer. PPIs are not regulatory in nature and can be anything from "I'd fly it" to a super detailed inspection that looks like a super detailed annual. Laying that on a first time buyer (for whom the PPI is often most critical) is pretty daunting. My experience is that the practical costs incurred come from actually flying the plane - and that's a good thing! Instruments wear out, consumables get consumed, minor annoyances become major, new things become more attractive than old things, and so on. And many (most) of those are $1k minimum. It's the repetitive $1k spends you have to be prepared for, in my opinion. True, there are horror stories, and as these old planes continue to age they'll only be more, but the mean spends are probably much more modest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 18 hours ago, Hoeschen said: Just an uncommon plane with relatively speaking no manufacturer or owner support compared to an RV. If you didn’t build it good luck finding a mechanic with experience working on one. Whereas Mooneys and RVs are a dime a dozen. Heck Id bet theres more RVs flying than Mooneys today. I built a -9A, 2014, one of the top 5 in the world i’d bet. But now flying a Super Viking and loving it. You should hop over to the Super Viking Forum. Might find an undervalued amazing machine in your price range. Had her loaded up at gross weight this weekend with the family climbing out at 1000fpm + at 88 degrees F. and cruising at 160 knots. Not to mention the superb handling! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So I spent a little time looking into the BSV’s... very intriguing! I’ll go look at the forum yet too but I’m definitely interested in these as well now! How are the annuals for them do you know? I know it varies obviously but I mean like with the wood inspection and all, does it get abnormally pricey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 hours ago, sw1024 said: I had this similar conversation/debate recently while getting some work done on my F. I was standing around with my A&P and two Cessna owners--206T and a 310 drivers. Both had previous experience in the Vans world. Both said they'd be back in the Vans world again if it wasn't a mission issue with useful load or number of seats. Speed, flight characteristics, fuel burn, low cost maintenance were the highlights for them. My A&P/IA is a big fan as well... Made me start thinking hard about it...wish they had more options for 4 seats...the RV-10 is amazing...but not at that price point for me. Would love a RV-10! I do wish however for a retract version. Although I read somewhere that a RV guy I think it was, he had made a retract and it hadn’t picked up that much speed vs cost/effort, think it was like around 6knots maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 16 hours ago, petegaz40 said: I’m currently on my second E model. I have owned a Thorp T-18 with 180 hp and a c/s prop. It’s a tight fit but the performance it pretty incredible. It will climb 1000 fpm at 10,000 ft. I use to easily cruise 160 kts and burn 9 gph. It was an easy tail wheel plane to fly but you need to keep your speed up to make that happen. It’s definitely worth looking at them. With that being said, there have been some structural failures so for me I wouldn’t fly them anymore. I’m anal about structural failures. How long did you have it, how many hours on it? Did you maintain it yourself, if so how was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 Already have two partners lined up for a really nice RV 6-9 to come along. When it does the C will be sold and I’ll have two nice partnerships...a 4 place all weather travel machine and a 2 place nice day flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 19 hours ago, Hoeschen said: Just an uncommon plane with relatively speaking no manufacturer or owner support compared to an RV. If you didn’t build it good luck finding a mechanic with experience working on one. Whereas Mooneys and RVs are a dime a dozen. Heck Id bet theres more RVs flying than Mooneys today. I built a -9A, 2014, one of the top 5 in the world i’d bet. But now flying a Super Viking and loving it. You should hop over to the Super Viking Forum. Might find an undervalued amazing machine in your price range. Had her loaded up at gross weight this weekend with the family climbing out at 1000fpm + at 88 degrees F. and cruising at 160 knots. Not to mention the superb handling! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk How do you get the termites to hold hands while flying? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLachlan Posted August 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, M20Doc said: How do you get the termites to hold hands while flying? Clarence Lol that’s pretty funny, good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 If boat owners have seen a fire ant raft.. Then plane owners probably have seen a termite parachute..? Every now and then an MSer has to deal with cleaning up after a rodent... Wood construction adds another layer of things to be aware of... Finding a mechanic with wood skills is also something to consider while looking for a plane... PP thoughts only, I really like the factory built aspect of my plane the most... thousands of other MSers with the same hardware, built the same way... fewer are very unique, or hiding surprises... Some kit built airplanes are more unique than others... Turbulence and flying a small plane isn’t horrible, until you are flying a one-off plane reading about structural failures... Best regards, -a- Close up of a fire ant raft... floating on water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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