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Mooney M20J Down in Ohio 8/13/20 -- No Injuries

mooniac15u
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Patent Drew Newbie

Patent Drew

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I am in the process of getting current at Clermont County Airport (I69), i.e., Sporty's, and I saw this plane on the ramp this past Sunday sitting next to another 201, so of course I took a picture of the pair.  Little did I know it would end up down and on MS the following week.  Ugh!  As I was taxing to depart, I even mentioned to my instructor how much I would like to buy either of those two 201's.

 

N201XH.jpg

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Patent Drew Newbie

Patent Drew

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Interestingly, this Pilatus landed as I was on downwind on Sunday.  You don't see a lot of jet traffic at Clermont County, so course I had to take a picture of it too.  It was about 50 yards from the 201's.

Pilatus PC-24.jpg

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mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

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I saw this earlier, glad I dont have to get the Bill Gilliland foundation engaged. @Patent Drew, give Jason at Sporty's my best (tell him the guy who had the white eskimo named Conner says hi). I used to fly into I69 every weekend to see my sweetie Alice when she lived in Anderson, Dog in tow

IMG00027-20090318-1546.jpg

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Patent Drew Newbie

Patent Drew

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Will do, @mike_elliott.  Conner is beautiful.  The Warbird Museum is conducting demonstration flights this Saturday and I may go out to watch with camera in tow.  They are flying the PT-17 Stearman, the TBM Avenger, the B-25, and the P-51.  Sporty's always cooks hot dogs on Saturday, so it's hard to ignore a P-51 and free hot dogs.

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

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Things to consider about farm fields....

Not all farm fields are created equal...

The physics for the deceleration for the case of landing in tall corn must be intense...

Corn stalks are weighty... and very strong... Tensile strength wise...

At 60kias It won’t take much distance before encountering A few thousand pounds of corn stalks that are firmly attached to the ground at the bottom end...
 

Deceleration is going to be incredibly fast.

 

Not all farm fields are very friendly...

From the direction of the ruts from being plowed, to the Irrigation equipment that can span huge swathes of the field...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

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4 hours ago, carusoam said:

The physics for the deceleration for the case of landing in tall corn must be intense...

Corn stalks are weighty... and very strong... Tensile strength wise...

At 60kias It won’t take much distance before encountering A few thousand pounds of corn stalks that are firmly attached to the ground at the bottom end...

Deceleration is going to be incredibly fast.

Thinking just as a physics problem thought experiment - I don't know - my intuition suggests tall corn might a pretty ideal stuff to crash land in.  If you flair at the tops of the stalks then you are not decelarating against the force of all those bases of the stalks but the whispy tops - you may well sort of float along the tops as they gradually (all pretty quick) bow more and more as you skim along sinking deeper into the stuff.  Think of land on water gear up - you aren't immediately plowing water equal to the mass of a submerged airplane.  Initially you are displacing just a tiny bit of water the amount corresponding to the still flying airplane then as it is decelerating you are flying less and floating more - of course in water that happens very very fast that transition but I bet in corn if you flair into it you might be in a really good place.

Thankfully this fellow was.

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

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better than tall trees...

helps to have good seat belts/airbags...
 

The one resource I had... (Not great for statistical analysis)

Indicated that floating on top didn’t work out so well...

With the compliance of water... we will see resistance to going under... skipping across the top at first, and floating a while at the end...
 

Corn stocks won’t exhibit the same stick-togetherness compliance that water seems to have...

If the nose dips in the water... the stop is horribly fast as well.... water has so much mass, it is essentially, not much of a moving object... As somebody had demonstrated off the Jersey shore a while back... which was probably more of a ricochet off the water, loss of control incident...

Dragging a wing tip in either medium probably isn’t recommended...

 

Keep the tips up,

Best regards,

-a-

 

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aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

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Just now, carusoam said:

The one resource I had... (Not great for statistical analysis)

Indicated that floating on top didn’t work out so well...

With the compliance of water... we will see resistance to going under... skipping across the top at first, and floating a while at the end...

If the nose dips in the water... the stop is horribly fast as well.... water has so much mass, it is essentially, not much of a moving object...

Dragging a wing tip in either medium probably isn’t recommended...

 

Keep the tips up,

Best regards,

-a-

 

I bet someone somewhere actually studied this properly - landing on tall corn.

But intuition/guess - nose down dig in.  Nose night you are still a little bit flying while the tail initially is dragging in the corn, so that is my idea of floating on top and then slowing you are hopefully nose high and sinking in not too abruptly as you decelerate.  If you see the airplane upside after the off field landing I guess that didn't workout that way.

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Rmag Rising Star

Rmag

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Tangential question ...  is it conventional thought that if you are landing in tall corn you go in gear up?  What are people’s thought on water ditching?  Gear up or down?  I guess a greater question is are there scenarios that call for a gear up vs down landing?  I recently watched this AvWeb video and Paul said that some people say gear up, some say gear down, and he says the data shows it doesn’t matter.  See the 8:40 mark:

 

 

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

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I like Paul Bertorelli, but...

Why did he pick a Mooney to make a cartoon landing in water and sinking...
 

Gear up for anything that will grab the gear...

Mooneys are definitely gear up for water... In line with the long tall waves... mostly because we have few points of data for Mooney water landings... but, those successful ones were done gear up...

Corn has some things in common with water...

If something grabs the gear, you end up on your back too fast...

Getting out of an inverted Mooney gets incredibly more difficult... the door may have all kinds of difficulty being opened...

a high wing landing in water has an added disadvantage... not much leisure time to get out and be dry...

In the case of the OP’s Mooney pic... gear down on solid ground near the corn... can be better...

+1 for getting slowed down before touching anything solid... or liquid...

+1 for gear up for slowing down fast once on the ground... Maximum braking measured in hundreds of feet... instead of a thousand...

Lots of randomness may ensue... so save your bacon first.... :)

Bummer.... procedure says turn off the electricity... desire says, leave the electricity on to hear the stall horn...

If you are talented... you can fly above stall speed with the electricity off, while being highly stressed...

Ethics is everything... accidentally mowing over Live people on streets, beaches or Golf courses doesn’t work very well... be ready to go to planC when people come into view...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 2 weeks later...
flyer338 Collaborator

flyer338

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There is a lot of valuable discussion here about the off-airport landing. I am writing about the news photo that shows the accident plane sitting on the ramp with the tow bar attached to the nose gear. That made me cringe. I realize it has nothing to do with the off airport landings, but it makes me very uncomfortable. One inflexible rule I have is the tow bar is not attached to the nose gear unless it is also attached to my hand.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Yetti Grand Master

Yetti

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The gear puts something between your behind and the ground to adsorb the g shock.  The thought would be to land with the furrows like you land with the waves for water ditching.   Water would probably be gear up.  Don't want them to catch and flip. At least that is what I think about as I fly over possible landing places.

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