does GFC 500 need yaw damper long body

[MIm20c]

Everyone always complains about the cost of BK servos. My guess is after the Garmin shop premium you’re looking at a $2k all in repair if the servo goes down.  So it’s one more item to maintain down the road if the owner is not convinced it will dramatically improve the ride...

[jamesm]

Not to hi-jack the topic... Please excuse my ignorance. would a yaw damper be necessary for a short body C Model ?

So  does reason to  have  a yaw damper  have to  do with the length of  fuselage ?

 

Thanks,

James

 

[PTK]

Can someone share what it costs to install a GFC500 in a Mooney? I’ve seen numbers as high as 23K and as low as 14K$. That’s a 10K$ delta! Cost of the hardware is around 7K$. Brackets are all prefabricated by Garmin and there are a couple of wires to each servo also provided. I don’t see the install to be that difficult to justify a 2 or 3x higher cost than the hardware!

[PMcClure]

My quote was:

Yaw Damp servo and kit    $2,200.00

Yaw Damp labor        $1,500.00

I decided not to do it as I didn't mind the ride when I didn't have it. Maybe I don't know what I am missing. 

[carusoam]

5 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Not to hi-jack the topic... Please excuse my ignorance. would a yaw damper be necessary for a short body C Model ?

So  does reason to  have  a yaw damper  have to  do with the length of  fuselage ?

 

Thanks,

James

 

Got you covered James....

You have a short body Mooney... which allows the tail to be closer to the Cg...

Have no fear... the guys at Mooney gave  supplied you with an adequate tail and rudder to not ‘need’ a yaw damper...

But...

If your C is a forever plane, you have the financial strength, and the sun shines.... you may want the yaw damper...

It is still a want to have, not a need to have...

If you want it... wait for it to be certified for your plane, and buy it...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic, or Big G sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye]

5 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Not to hi-jack the topic... Please excuse my ignorance. would a yaw damper be necessary for a short body C Model ?

So  does reason to  have  a yaw damper  have to  do with the length of  fuselage ?

 

Thanks,

James

 

Normally the longer the Moment from CG position to rudder, the more benefit a YD should be.  However, the C Model is very light and in turbulence bounces around more than a heavily wing loaded airplane does.  So, I think it would be beneficial even on the C model.  However, when it comes to APs on the older short bodied Mooneys, the cost/airplane value ratio is pretty high.  So you would be buying it based on value to you in cross country flying and not on a return on investment.  

[PTK]

16 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Everyone always complains about the cost of BK servos. My guess is after the Garmin shop premium you’re looking at a $2k all in repair if the servo goes down.  So it’s one more item to maintain down the road if the owner is not convinced it will dramatically improve the ride...

That seems on the high end. I had my pitch servo repaired a couple of years ago by autopilot central for around 700$. I seem to remember they changed the solenoid and tach motor. It is original to the airplane and the only repair it had since it was born in Kerville. Good for another 25 years!

[MIm20c]

Just now, PTK said:

That seems on the high end. I had my pitch servo repaired a couple of years ago by autopilot central for around 700$. I seem to remember they changed the solenoid and tach motor. It is original to the airplane and the only repair it had since it was born in Kerville. Good for another 25 years!

In 3k hours the 225 BK servos have all been overhauled once I recall. Normal cost range I’ve seen/experienced was in the 1500-2500 range. Labor rates are all over because some shops speed a lot of time diagnosing the problem.  My guess is Garmin will have a flat rate charge of 750-1150 for any repair of the servo. The Garmin servos will probably take a little longer to swap but be easier to diagnose. There have been reports of multiple servo failures already in certified planes but apparently only the earlier units (before the long bodies were certified). Owners already past the warranty period were given exchange units for free but had to cover R/R labor charges. The shops charging 18-24k for a gfc500 install will IMO charge almost 2k for a servo repair down the road. 

[PMcClure]

My experience in the Mooney has been 2 or 3 roll servos in 8 years. Prior to that, the original servos lasted 10 years. Rebuilt servo was $1700 with exchange and labor was $180. We self diagnosed with some consult and decided to assume it was the servo instead of spending hundreds of dollars on diagnosis. Previous experience in a Bo was about the same, except it was the pitch servo that kept going out. 

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

Can someone share what it costs to install a GFC500 in a Mooney? I’ve seen numbers as high as 23K and as low as 14K$. That’s a 10K$ delta! Cost of the hardware is around 7K$. Brackets are all prefabricated by Garmin and there are a couple of wires to each servo also provided. I don’t see the install to be that difficult to justify a 2 or 3x higher cost than the hardware!

Mine was just about $17K for a 4 servo install

[ArtVandelay]

For fun, I did some testing today and would be curious what short/long body folks see. Also what those who already have a YD see.
Flying at cruise speed and level, I push on the rudder and quickly let go. The result is 1 large waggle as expected, then a smaller one, followed up by a baby waggle.

[khedrei]

If a new Garmin servo is 1500 on its own im not sure how an overhaul could be expected to cost 2k?!!?

As far as R & R, I watched my avionics guy pull out my pitch servo in 2 minutes flat. I can't see a reinstall taking much longer than a half hour with assembly and tests...

[carusoam]

14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

For fun, I did some testing today and would be curious what short/long body folks see. Also what those who already have a YD see.
Flying at cruise speed and level, I push on the rudder and quickly let go. The result is 1 large waggle as expected, then a smaller one, followed up by a baby waggle.

Sounds like an interesting, seat of the pants, way to measure the response rate...

Use caution at any too slow of an airspeed... (in case somebody isn’t familiar with snap yaw stalls...)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-