Which model Mooney should I buy?

[aviatoreb]

15 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

So long as you dont want to go anywhere with less than 4500 feet and you can afford the operating cost... ABSOLUTELY!  IT is a true time machine... 530 knots true...  I've seen almost 700 over the ground in a strong tailwind.

I think I can afford to rent about 4 minutes and 30 seconds of G650 time.  Sign me up!

[Hank]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

I think I can afford to rent about 4 minutes and 30 seconds of G650 time.  Sign me up!

Me, too! As long as I don't have to pay for fuel . . . .

[ArtVandelay]

So long as you dont want to go anywhere with less than 4500 feet and you can afford the operating cost... ABSOLUTELY!  IT is a true time machine... 530 knots true...  I've seen almost 700 over the ground in a strong tailwind.

What’s an annual cost on one of those babys?

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Me, too! As long as I don't have to pay for fuel . . . .

No - I meant with fuel.  When I said I could afford it - I meant I would sell my car.

[Schllc]

55 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

What’s an annual cost on one of those babys?

Annual, A, B, and C as well. 
I know nothing about jets, what I do know is a friend of mine who flys a falcon for his employer, just got it out of a million+ annual and A & B check. 

[Austintatious]

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

What’s an annual cost on one of those babys?

Jets dont typically have annuals.   They are on Phase inspections.  http://www.faa-aircraft-certification.com/aircraft-phase-inspections.html1- 5 I believe.

[golfmogul]

17 hours ago, Danb said:

RV 10 would fit you bill nicely 

Yeah - I wish I could get one - but for my first plane, I've been avoiding anything experimental due to ex wife issues.  Later, the 10 is what I want.

[Niko182]

I have to agree with the statement that If you are consistantly using up 4  seats, you want a 6 seater. After filling up the plane to the brim of what I can fit in it on about 1/3 of the flights done when traveling places, if I had the opportunity to do it again, I would 100% get a six seater.

[bradp]

I think Steve-o of YouTube fame mentioned a $95k annual for a TBM 830.  Yikes. 

[Marauder]

I think Steve-o of YouTube fame mentioned a $95k annual for a TBM 830.  Yikes. 

And it still had issues afterwards (prop control).


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[Flymu2]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

I think Steve-o of YouTube fame mentioned a $95k annual for a TBM 830.  Yikes. 

I fly a TBM 850, essentially the same as Steveo.

There are A, B, and C inspections. The big one is the C. The basic C inspection is about 30K, plus items to fix. A's and B's run about 10k and 20k respectively. Then there are calendar items - prop every 6 yrs at 20K, oxygen masks at 6yrs at I think 10-12K, gear actuators at 10 yrs about 40K, low pressure fuel pump and vertical stabilizer inspections at 10 yrs (don't know the prices for those), other stuff that I'm not remembering.

It can be eye watering, but then again 300 kts at FL300 is eye watering too. All depends on how much you have "the need for speed".

[ArtVandelay]

And it still had issues afterwards (prop control).


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$95,000 just doesn’t buy what it use to ;-)

The worst part is this should have been discovered by the shop, easily found if they bothered to do a runup.

[TheLachlan]

We got a turbo normalized F model as a first plane, that is also what I made my PPL in, I have no PIC time in a high wing or "trainer". 

Given your price range of low to mid 100k and what you have described I think the perfect plane would be a nice J model. Maybe you could even find a turbo normalized one. You've mentioned moving up in 2-3 years and I think with your budget a J would definitely fit the bill well with being new to Mooney's and also later with resale value. Maybe you find a good private sale but if going through a broker I'd defiantly recommend Jimmy at All American Aircraft, he's a Mooney guy and knows his stuff.

I would not recommend biting off more than what the performance of the F or J would be,  as others have said. I recently got to sit right seat in a MS members Ovation 1 for a short hop from KGGG to KPRX and the performance gap between the Ovation and a F model is very wide. I had previously just landed the F at KGGG about 2hrs prior and then got in the Ovation so it was essentially a back to back comparison, we even flew a loose formation together on the way to KGGG and he had to throttle wayyyyy back to stay even with me, blew the F out of the water at our altitudes, take off at about 500' and climb to about 3,500. His climb speeds are close to my cruise speeds, thats a big difference. 

Enjoy a J model for a few years and then get into the 300+hp or turbocharged monsters. 

The other advantage of starting with the J is by the time 2-3 years rolls around you may have gained a totally different perspective of what you want next.

Oh and idk what you meant with the RV10 comment, its not of my business, but that would be perfect btw. I wish I would have tried going that direction myself although I do like Mooneys.

 

Also side note: To me it seems that it has a lot more to do with how consistently you can get out and fly in the beginning and really get some good reps in with training instead of dragging it out to where you border line have to relearn some aspect of the flow or your training when you get back in the plane to fly again. I feel like if you can be consistent in training and then consistent in flying afterwards then the risk factor to getting into something complex and high performance diminishes greatly, and your estimated flight hrs per year should give you the ability to stack learning and be able to build on your experience every time you fly the plane vs having to try and remember things that should be 2nd nature at that point.

My .02, and I'm a low time PPL but that's how I feel based on my experiences, limited experiences.

[rpcc]

There are many who say if you can't pay cash for the plane you shouldn't buy it.  That's fine, but if you think in those terms, eg how much per month will it cost me to get the money to buy this or that plane it helps.  If for example it costs $200 a month to buy a much newer plane with the right electronics, paint, engine, fuel tank condition, shock disks and all the other little things sorted out, I think you would be way better off to spend the $200 and have the new plane than the one you are going to have to bring up to speed.    I learned this looking at a low priced eagle with nice electronics, but the fuel tanks and paint were not so nice so I passed after a limited inspection with my mechanic.  

Also, give some thought to an initial and ongoing training plan.  Unless you are lucky and have someone experienced nearby either you or the instructor will need to travel.  

I added my instructor into my w+b calculations figuring that I would need to take him with me on any long trip until I had the experience I needed.   I was planning for 3 people total  including the instructor so the mooney worked.   If I had 4 plus an instructor, it would be an A36 or other 6 place single.  

That was how I looked at it.  

Edited August 14, 2020 by rpcc

[ArtVandelay]

There are many who say if you can't pay cash for the plane you shouldn't buy it.  That's fine, but if you think in those terms, eg how much per month will it cost me to get the money to buy this or that plane it helps.

Just to ballpark a few numbers, based on my experience: hangar, insurance, fuel, training, database/EFB subscriptions, and maintenance (including overhaul fund for engine and prop) for an average single piston plane $10-20k. So if you can’t afford to save $40-80k in 4 years, then you can’t afford to buy the airplane.

PS: I know someone will argue it can be done for less, that’s not the point. Planes cost $ to own even if you own it.

[Hank]

7 hours ago, rpcc said:

There are many who say if you can't pay cash for the plane you shouldn't buy it.  That's fine, but if you think in those terms, eg how much per month will it cost me to get the money to buy this or that plane it helps.  If for example it costs $200 a month to buy a much newer plane with the right electronics, paint, engine, fuel tank condition, shock disks and all the other little things sorted out, I think you would be way better off to spend the $200 and have the new plane than the one you are going to have to bring up to speed.    I learned this looking at a low priced eagle with nice electronics, but the fuel tanks and paint were not so nice so I passed after a limited inspection with my mechanic.  

Also, give some thought to an initial and ongoing training plan.  Unless you are lucky and have someone experienced nearby either you or the instructor will need to travel.  

I added my instructor into my w+b calculations figuring that I would need to take him with me on any long trip until I had the experience I needed.   I was planning for 3 people total  including the instructor so the mooney worked.   If I had 4 plus an instructor, it would be an A36 or other 6 place single.  

That was how I looked at it.  

I bought my Mooney with a home equity loan. Five weeks after PPL checkride. The day after my insurance-required dual, I took my wife to lunch (KHTW-->KMGW, 140 nm through the Appalachians). The next week we went to visit her parents at KFAY, 270 nm away across the Appalachians. 

The week after my PPL in 2007, we took the Mighty Skyhawk to see my parents at KAVL, 199 nm along the length of the Appalachians. 

Am I crazy? The flight school had no trouble with it. I told them at the start of my training that these trips were my goal. They taught, I learned; later I traveled. I have never had a CFI / CFII in the plane outside of training, certainly never on a trip "for safety," just as my Driver's Ed teacher never rode with me after I finished the class.

What have we become? 

[Skates97]

8 minutes ago, Hank said:

I bought my Mooney with a home equity loan. Five weeks after PPL checkride. The day after my insurance-required dual, I took my wife to lunch (KHTW-->KMGW, 140 nm through the Appalachians). The next week we went to visit her parents at KFAY, 270 nm away across the Appalachians. 

The week after my PPL in 2007, we took the Mighty Skyhawk to see my parents at KAVL, 199 nm along the length of the Appalachians. 

Am I crazy? The flight school had no trouble with it. I told them at the start of my training that these trips were my goal. They taught, I learned; later I traveled. I have never had a CFI / CFII in the plane outside of training, certainly never on a trip "for safety," just as my Driver's Ed teacher never rode with me after I finished the class.

What have we become? 

Thread drift warning.....

I'm there with you Hank. The only time I have had a CFI/CFII in the plane after my check-ride was when I was getting my dual required 10 hours transition training for insurance and for a flight review. 

The week after my check-ride (very next flight) I took my wife and son to the next airport over for lunch. A couple weeks later I made a very slow flight in the rented Cherokee from SoCal to Phoenix and took my dad and sister flying while I was there .

It wasn't very long after completing the required insurance time in the Mooney (around 80 hours total flight time) before we were flying the Mooney on long trips, AZ, NV, UT, ID.

I understand there are some that take longer to get comfortable, which is not necessarily a bad thing. For those that worry about longer cross country trips and get nervous about them, try to nail down where that concern is coming from. If it is fuel/weather planning, you learned that for your PPL. Yes, the weather planning on a 3-4 hour trip in a Mooney is different (sort of) than a slow Cherokee/Cessna because you cover more ground, but there are forecasts so it really isn't that different. You know how to plan for fuel. If you are concerned about getting lost or wandering into someone's airspace a tablet is helpful.

Really, the biggest challenge I think is finding the airport and flying a pattern/landing someplace where you aren't familiar with the landmarks. The reality is that the en-route portion of the flight is typically rather mundane. So, pick out airports you have never been to and just fly there, land, and fly back. They don't have to be very far away, just get more comfortable going to a new airport. After you have done that for awhile and started checking off new places you will find that going to a new place really isn't that hard. You just study it, brief it, and go. If you want, pull up Google Earth and take a good look around the airport and surrounding area, when you get there it will look familiar.

[Ross Taylor]

Just now, Skates97 said:

Really, the biggest challenge I think is finding the airport

And even when you "find" the airport, it's sometimes hard to find the airport.    You'd think it's super easy to spot an airport from the sky, but I've learned that it's sometimes a challenge.  Last year, flying to Austin Exec from Flagstaff, my wife was super surprised by how hard it was to see the airport...even when we knew exactly where to look.

[Hank]

7 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Thread drift warning.....

Really, the biggest challenge I think is finding the airport and flying a pattern/landing someplace where you aren't familiar with the landmarks. The reality is that the en-route portion of the flight is typically rather mundane. So, pick out airports you have never been to and just fly there, land, and fly back. They don't have to be very far away, just get more comfortable going to a new airport. After you have done that for awhile and started checking off new places you will find that going to a new place really isn't that hard. You just study it, brief it, and go.

That was my 15 hours of insurance Mooney dual. I think we went to about every airport within 45 Mooney minutes.

A few had level, straight runways. Many were level OR straight:  some were crooked, some had dips in the middle, some were humped so you couldn't see the other end (like my home base). It's all about variety, the Spice of Life!