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M20C Values


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I thought I'd put this up to the expertise here, particularly those who've been looking at buying an older Mooney lately.

From 1992-2003, I owned N2997L, a 1967 M20C with electric gear.  My wife and I became good Oshkosh friends with the current owner and his wife.  Recently, our friend died and I'm trying to help the widow determine a good price for the airplane.  Their local EAA chapter is cleaning it up and getting it ready for posting for sale.

In 2003, it was very well maintained and clean.  It looks 17 years older now, but appears to be well taken care of.  Paint and interior 25 years old, probably rank about 7 or 8. 

So, how much do you think it's worth, if everything else checks out (no corrosion or significant issues).

PROs

- STEC 30 Autopilot

- every speed mod available from the LASAR catalog

CONs:

 - high time engine- 1950+ hours

- no ADS-B

 - no IFR GPS

 

Thanks for your help.

IMG_2480.JPG

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26 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Might as well make it $5k so people don’t lowball the widow... :| 

It was at TBO so there is no value left in the engine. It probably has also been sitting a while. Nobody in their right mind would trust it for very long without OH. 

 

Older radios, no adsb. 

 

Figure OH alone is 30k at a low estimate. Now you're at 45-50. 

Adsb, if you go the cheapest route possible is 1800 plus installation, lets call it 2k. 47-52k

how is the prop?  Assuming it's around the same time as the motor you need a new one or an overhaul. Let's call that 3k

 

now we're at 50-55 and we have only just made it airworthy without updating anything. It's maybe worth 45 to 50 at this point. (Yeah you're underwater but it's not too bad)

 

Id say my original estimate was pretty fair...

 

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Assuming airframe is in good shape, this nicely modded C would make a great blank slate for someone who wants a new panel and an overhaul on their terms.  I'd say 35-40k if flown regularly, much less if sitting unfortunately.

 

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I'd probably value it just a little bit higher just because of the Stec 30 autopilot. M20C's with a proper autopilot are rare and getting rarer. Obviously it needs a few things.

  • Engine ($25K)
  • GPS ($6K)
  • ADSB ($2K)

While not cheap, they are all at least available. But at the moment, there are effectively no autopilots available for an M20C. So finding one with a good one, is rare and therefore has value.

Along with all the LASAR mods, many of which are no longer available, also make it a desirable plane to upgrade.

Bottom line, the things it needs are available. The the things that you want in an M20C but are not available, it already has.

I'd say $25K would be fair and $30K wouldn't be too far out of line.

 

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Just now, DXB said:

Assuming airframe is in good shape, this nicely modded C would make a great blank slate for someone who wants a new panel and an overhaul on their terms.  I'd say 35-40k if flown regularly, much less if sitting unfortunately.

 

Yeah, nothing on FlightAware since March last year.

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14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd probably value it just a little bit higher just because of the Stec 30 autopilot. M20C's with a proper autopilot are rare and getting rarer. Obviously it needs a few things.

  • Engine ($25K)
  • GPS ($6K)
  • ADSB ($2K)

While not cheap, they are all at least available. But at the moment, there are effectively no autopilots available for an M20C. So finding one with a good one, is rare and therefore has value.

Along with all the LASAR mods, many of which are no longer available, also make it a desirable plane to upgrade.

Bottom line, the things it needs are available. The the things that you want in an M20C but are not available, it already has.

I'd say $25K would be fair and $30K wouldn't be too far out of line.

 

 

14 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah, nothing on FlightAware since March last year.

It was flown very regularly, until the man died about a month ago.  He wasn't instrument rated and didn't have ADS-B, so nothing will really show up on Flightaware. 

The STEC and mods are why I wanted to ask folks around here.  I've seen some M20Cs not as nice as this one advertised for $40k, and decent ones with mid-time engines but no autopilot actually selling for $40k.

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17 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

It was flown very regularly, until the man died about a month ago.  He wasn't instrument rated and didn't have ADS-B, so nothing will really show up on Flightaware. 

The STEC and mods are why I wanted to ask folks around here.  I've seen some M20Cs not as nice as this one advertised for $40k, and decent ones with mid-time engines but no autopilot actually selling for $40k.

That's good to know. It would still have to be considered a runout engine. 

Of course, I'm certainly on record as valuing a plane that needs an engine (easy to get) much higher than a plane that needs an autopilot (impossible to get at any price.)

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So...

In Y2K I bought an M20C... (the crumbiest one on the planet, let’s say....)

It had 5k hours on the airframe.... and 1k on the engine that was a mutt of Lesser known genealogy....

Paint was thin... interior falling in....

Lived outdoors it’s entire life... corrosion bloomed on it like algae....

one decent navcom (Narco), a NorthStar loran that worked for a few more years... (Ever year of these?)

34amu in Y2K money...

Some affect of the time value of money.... using inflation rate of a bout 2% over the years...

I would be buying the same plane at a price of higher than 40amu...
 

This one has an AP, my C’s Britain was inop, and had half an engine left on it... (engine time)

 

Depending on how nice this plane is...

It Can and may be a preferred acquisition... the price is set as a run-out engine, that may get a few more hours out of it...While the new owner decides how to Best OH the engine for himself....  Many people prefer run-out engines when buying a plane... their plan includes updates....and have no desire to pay for things they won’t use...

Every plane has a story to be told....

Every Mooney has the bones to become somebody’s forever plane...
 

The best way to begin telling this plane’s story....

  • Snap a few pics... post them
  • If it is flying... get a video the next time it goes out... T/O and landing is enough to know it is not a static display....
  • Copy the logs... at least the last few years activity...

Let the EAA guys know these things would be helpful...

There are enough people around here looking for planes.... 

Get the ball rolling with showing this plane...  

Price is important... it can’t be ignored...

It isn’t the most important thing... and it isn’t the only thing...

And... it can be adjusted in seconds...

All the other stuff takes some effort...

It takes two people to make a market... one buyer, one seller...

To lower the price... add another seller....

To have the price go higher... add another buyer...

Post some important things...
 

In this one pic we see above.... somebody cared for this bird more than mine....  this one has paint... before it got painted, it got mods... fancy windshield, fancy wing tips, fancy tail Fairing...

Lets get the story out in the open...

(Of course.... prayers for our Mooney brother who has flown west...)

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

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10 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

What good is an autopilot for an airplane that doesn’t fly?

 

i don’t put a lot of value in an autopilot in an airplane without a strong motor or prop. 
 

unless you like robots and watching the bits in the end of the wings move on their own...


The plane has been flying... without ADSB... so no record of it flying...

Anyone that buys this plane to fly long X-countries may want an AP too...

Chris, you are right... They will probably want a strong motor and matching prop too...

It would be nice to know what prop it has and any other details...

 

Looks like it might be a great way to begin an excellent M20C forever-plane.... 

If the panel is completely full of old dusty round dials... would this be a perfect plane for a Dynon system or two?

Call the panel run-out and priced accordingly if it helps...
 

Hmmm... where’s that Dynon AP lately...  wouldn’t want to pay extra for an old AP, if a new Dynon AP was available...

:)
 

Best regards,

-a-

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Just now, carusoam said:

 

Hmmm... where’s that Dynon AP lately...  wouldn’t want to pay extra for an old AP, if a new Dynon AP was available...

:)
 

Best regards,

-a-

I heard the Piper was days away from being done, then the A36, then the 182, then the Mooney. 
 

still optimistic the J installation will cover most of the fleet. Less optimistic about having the Mooney by the end of the year. 

Edited by chriscalandro
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Wow you guys aren’t considering the full spectrum of overhaul prices. I spoke with Jewell Aviation last fall and it was $12.7 for the overhaul plus $1.7 for R&R plus X to have the prop IRAN’d or overhauled by their guy or your guy (I used Cody and my IRAN with SB updates was $1.2k). Cracked case? Yeah stuff like that is obviously extra. I have yet to read a bad review about Jewell except for the constant compliant that they are always busy.

As far as the engine being “timed out” what are the circumstances behind that? Has it been sitting unused for years? Flown 1 hour every two weeks?

 

If the widow has time to burn, I’d just fly the thing to Jewell, break it in, and give it to Jimmy Garrison to get $45-50 for a solid bird with a fresh windmill up front.

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Tigers,

Sooner or later, the words...

1) That’s too much for that...

2) I wouldn’t pay that much...

3) I paid less than that, back in Y2K...

4) Price it as if it is run-out...
 

Lots of negativity, for no apparent reason... 

Everyone actually knows...

5) When a price is put on an object...

6) And the object has a clear description... like 1,990 hours on the engine...

7) The price actually includes the engine as run out....

8) Actual negotiation has to find good reasons to logically lower the price...  if it is in the description, it isn’t hidden.
 

Otherwise... that’s not negotiating...  

9) Anyone can make an offer... even a low ball offer...

10) The seller gets to respond...

 

Take a look at all the people asking ‘is this plane still for sale’ around here...

The number of people is far outweighing the number of planes for sale...

Planes are just now getting fairly priced similar to 2007...   they are just starting to approach those 13 year old prices. 
 

The airplane Market is tiny compared to the overall economy...

It takes a lot to knock prices down...  Something like a fuel shortage...

 

PP thoughts only, not an economist...

Best regards,

-a-



 

 

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2 hours ago, av8or99 said:

I've called the company to try to buy this airplane 3 times and can't get the Sales department to return my call. Don't know what kind of scam there running but I hope the widow got here money for the plane


Are you sure?


What company did you call?

How did you try to buy the plane?

Is there something we can help you with?
 

Buying pre-flown airplanes generally takes more than a phone call....

Welcome aboard...
 

If you are interested... we seem to know how to get in touch with the relatives involved...

You may have mixed this one with a different one..?

Best regards,

-a-

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