Rivet question. Can a panel be worked on too much?

[rbridges]

I noticed when looking at my panel with the transponder moved, there are a lot of rivet holes. What happens when trays have been replaced several times, can the attachment point be replaced?  It looks like an aluminum strap that the trays are attached with rivets?

My transponder and DME which are on the copilot side do not fit completely flush with the center stack. It bothers me, but I plan to redo everything next year.  Just wondering if all the previous work gets to be a problem eventually. 

[ArtVandelay]

Yes, I had to replace my right stack because it look like Swiss cheese.

[carusoam]

Finding an unadulterated one is probably 50/50...

See what Alan has in the parts bin...

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

When i did my new avionics a couple of years ago, I made new ones. It was a bit of work but the outcome was worth it.

[Marauder]

I noticed when looking at my panel with the transponder moved, there are a lot of rivet holes. What happens when trays have been replaced several times, can the attachment point be replaced?  It looks like an aluminum strap that the trays are attached with rivets?
My transponder and DME which are on the copilot side do not fit completely flush with the center stack. It bothers me, but I plan to redo everything next year.  Just wondering if all the previous work gets to be a problem eventually. 

It absolutely is an issue. My plane had upgrades done that clearly didn’t address the structural integrity of the racks after multiple upgrades. The honest shop I am using now showed me how weak the stack had become, even pointing out how the avionics on the right had sagged close to the yoke and where a previous shop had actually notched the rack. He rebuilt the entire rack system.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[rbridges]

14 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

It absolutely is an issue. My plane had upgrades done that clearly didn’t address the structural integrity of the racks after multiple upgrades. The honest shop I am using now showed me how weak the stack had become, even pointing out how the avionics on the right had sagged close to the yoke and where a previous shop had actually notched the rack. He rebuilt the entire rack system.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

ok, that's what I wanted to know.  If it could be rebuilt or not.  I'm sure just about anything can be if you throw enough money at it.  I just didn't know how common and/or expensive this was.

[231MJ]

The rails from Mooney are really expensive - I remember getting a quote 10 years ago and it was crazy expensive, like $800/pair so a few more holes went into the old rails.  The 231 has an advantage on the right side because there is a support underneath that holds the stack.  Not sure if these are any cheaper for if they work for the Mooney.  

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/radiorax.php?clickkey=3294974

 

[rbridges]

Just now, 231MJ said:

The rails from Mooney are really expensive - I remember getting a quote 10 years ago and it was crazy expensive, like $800/pair so a few more holes went into the old rails.  The 231 has an advantage on the right side because there is a support underneath that holds the stack.  Not sure if these are any cheaper for if they work for the Mooney.  

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/radiorax.php?clickkey=3294974

 

holy cow.  I'll just have to see what my options are.

[Marauder]

holy cow.  I'll just have to see what my options are.

You don’t need to use the Mooney racks. Just like you don’t have to use a Mooney panel (even if they were available today). A good avionics shop can fabricate the rack and the panels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[OR75]

Making a new one to dimension is not difficult . Just need to understand what bend radius is what set back is .... etc... 

it becomes tricky depending on what you have at the top of the stack and if you have to remove the annunciators at the top since they are often riveted 

[jaylw314]

Rivet holes get expanded when you drive a solid rivet, and sometimes they get expanded a little more when you remove them.  There are actually "oops" rivet sizes that are slightly larger than the standard 3/32" and 1/8" rivets, that you can use, but obviously if you do that a couple more times, even those don't work, so you have to drill the hole out for the next size rivet.  Eventually, though, you need to replace the part.

Pull rivets cause less hole expansion, but are harder to remove.  I don't think I've ever seen them in avionics work, even though they're allowed since they're not structural.  Also, I think there are some questions as to whether they conduct electricity well enough for ground paths.

Those aluminum straps are exactly what they look like--aluminum straps.  You could probably fabricate them yourself out of sheet stock.

[bradp]

Mine are also Swiss cheese. When I need to reorganize the panel - radiorax

[Steve Dawson]

I'd like to restart this threat and ask does anyone know which rivets are needed to replace the original flat rivets. We've added and moved a few items in the stacks and wanted to put in the same rivets. The shop is unfamiliar with Mooney's 

Thanks 

Steve 

[carusoam]

Inviting one of the big MS avionics installers to the conversation… @Baker Avionics

Best regards,

-a-

[laytonl]

On 8/3/2020 at 1:25 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

When i did my new avionics a couple of years ago, I made new ones. It was a bit of work but the outcome was worth it.

I recently did this too.  Just made new rails out of stock aluminum plate.   Don’t remember the material thickness though.  Lee

[Baker Avionics]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:28 PM, carusoam said:

Inviting one of the big MS avionics installers to the conversation… @Baker Avionics

Best regards,

-a-

Over time, the rails get pretty messed up and are "Swiss Cheese" for sure.  If you have the opportunity, replace them while things are open.  It will save time, money and headaches.  These are a great alternative and future proof the stack.

 

Radiorax Tray Mount Kits | Aircraft Spruce

 

 

[jaylw314]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:29 PM, Steve Dawson said:

I'd like to restart this threat and ask does anyone know which rivets are needed to replace the original flat rivets. We've added and moved a few items in the stacks and wanted to put in the same rivets. The shop is unfamiliar with Mooney's 

Thanks 

Steve 

I have a real tough time imagining a shop needs to know what kind of flat rivets they are ahead of time.  Is there any reason to think they're not standard AN426 flat rivets?  Mine looked like AD-4's the last time I had stuff out.

It's not like they need to know the length ahead of time, they should have all the different lengths in the shop since it's they're pretty (very) commonly used.

[Yetti]

On 1/29/2022 at 9:29 PM, Steve Dawson said:

I'd like to restart this threat and ask does anyone know which rivets are needed to replace the original flat rivets. We've added and moved a few items in the stacks and wanted to put in the same rivets. The shop is unfamiliar with Mooney's 

Thanks 

Steve 

The ones that fit the hole on the radio rack.   Not being that guy.   But seriously that is how I did it.   Get box of soft flush rivets.  See which ones fit the holes on the radio rack.   Find appropriate drill bit.

I replaced the two radio racks with a single piece.   I had to since the Dynon 9" screen is wider than the standard 6" radio.  

It's just angle alum for holding the radios to the panel.