FAA Over Reach?

[GeeBee]

I know. Say it ain't so. LOL! However I received this message from my AME today.

"Dear Airmen,
 We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections.
1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible.
2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA . "

 

To me it sounds like the FAA just amended Part 67 without a NPRM or any emergency notice.

Second, the requirement to send the paperwork to OKC sounds like "special issuance" and not routine. Which raises more alarms.

[chriscalandro]

Tell them to F off. 

[takair]

4 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

I know. Say it ain't so. LOL! However I received this message from my AME today.

"Dear Airmen,
 We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections.
1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible.
2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA . "

 

To me it sounds like the FAA just amended Part 67 without a NPRM or any emergency notice.

Second, the requirement to send the paperwork to OKC sounds like "special issuance" and not routine. Which raises more alarms.

So, this sounds like all AMEs got this letter and it applies to all airmen infected?   Agree, this does not sound good...almost the equivalent of an emergency grounding AD against airmen.

[carusoam]

Great logic for the old FAA...

It kept people from going to the doctor for as long as possible...
 

The new FAA wrote some logical rules.  Listed dozens of meds that can be used while flying...

And SIs for certain individual cases...
 

Either way, I don’t want to have to go to the hospital for Covid or anything else...

Plan A: Stay healthy!

Stand by for clarification on that letter... might be time to send a letter to the AOPA...

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

I have sent a message to AOPA tonight. Awaiting a response.  

 

[N201MKTurbo]

The state health department called me after I had it. I felt violated about that, I don’t remember signing anything that approved the release of my medical records. If the FAA calls me I’m going to sue someone.

[BKlott]

GeeBee, I’m wondering what Class of Medical you hold or are you on BasicMed? This letter was sent to your AME, correct?

May just be another good reason (as if “another” is needed) to be on BasicMed.

 

[jaylw314]

51 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The state health department called me after I had it. I felt violated about that, I don’t remember signing anything that approved the release of my medical records. If the FAA calls me I’m going to sue someone.

Confidentiality in health care has limits, and one of those limits is certain infectious diseases.  In most (or maybe all) states, physicians are required by law to breach confidentiality to report them, kind of like suspected child abuse.  Try not to get tuberculosis or syphilis while you're at it... (I'm admittedly unsure about the syphilis part)

As to the letter @GeeBee received, it'll be interesting to see if other people get such notices from their AME's (or if we have any AME's on MS?).  AME's are physicians too, and different physicans interpret things they hear in different ways, and I think it's a significant possibility some AME is practing CYA medicine.  The FAA Guide to AME's website was updated today for the first time in a few months (July 29th), and the headline updates they referenced were for polycystic kidney disease and diabetes meds...

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/monthly_guide_updates/

Do we have any AME's on MS?

[N201MKTurbo]

19 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Confidentiality in health care has limits, and one of those limits is certain infectious diseases.  In most (or maybe all) states, physicians are required by law to breach confidentiality to report them, kind of like suspected child abuse.  Try not to get tuberculosis or syphilis while you're at it... (I'm admittedly unsure about the syphilis part)

As to the letter @GeeBee received, it'll be interesting to see if other people get such notices from their AME's (or if we have any AME's on MS?).  AME's are physicians too, and different physicans interpret things they hear in different ways, and I think it's a significant possibility some AME is practing CYA medicine.  The FAA Guide to AME's website was updated today for the first time in a few months (July 29th), and the headline updates they referenced were for polycystic kidney disease and diabetes meds...

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/monthly_guide_updates/

Do we have any AME's on MS?

They might also be looking at this as a profit opportunity. 

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

They might also be looking at this as a profit opportunity. 

Unlikely, but sadly still a possibility

[kortopates]

So what's different here? We already have to report any hospital admissions on our medical app and certainly have to report all visits with any healthcare professional. So what's different here? If one was ill enough to require treatment for Covid-19 what is unusual about submitting records to show you are good to return to acting as PIC?  I would assume all the same existing rules apply. Or to put another way how could this not count like any other medical illness that required hospitalization or ongoing treatment? Don't we already want to show up for a medical with all the appropriate documentation after a hospitalization or other non-routine treatment?

[takair]

3 hours ago, kortopates said:

So what's different here? We already have to report any hospital admissions on our medical app and certainly have to report all visits with any healthcare professional. So what's different here? If one was ill enough to require treatment for Covid-19 what is unusual about submitting records to show you are good to return to acting as PIC?  I would assume all the same existing rules apply. Or to put another way how could this not count like any other medical illness that required hospitalization or ongoing treatment? Don't we already want to show up for a medical with all the appropriate documentation after a hospitalization or other non-routine treatment?

The difference appears to be that they want you to go in out of cycle. In other words, today we self police when between medicals, here they are specifically asking you to have a new exam immediately after, even if you just tested positive. Am I reading it wrong?  Seems like they are saying that a positive test is disqualifying until a re-exam. This usually requires some level of rule making and public comment, does it not?  I could have this wrong, but with the large numbers, and lack of clear guidance On what may be Acceptable for recertification, this could be yet another major blow to our pilot population. 

[Shiny moose]

I tested negitive, but had to go to dr to get tested , now i have to report that i had a dr visit, why I had a visit, proof that I tested negitive( how else will they know). 

I got a letter from health dept that i was not allowed to leave my home or even answer the door for 14 days, cause i was negitive, and could at any moment become positive, with the threat of jail time if i did not comply.  I will not do that agian. I will not be responsable and try and do the right thing, i will not accept a letter from the health department(i will just throw it away)  I will not answer my phone for unknown numbers, and god help them showing up at my door .

[Davidv]

Just now, Shiny moose said:

I tested negitive, but had to go to dr to get tested , now i have to report that i had a dr visit, why I had a visit, proof that I tested negitive( how else will they know). 

I got a letter from health dept that i was not allowed to leave my home or even answer the door for 14 days, cause i was negitive, and could at any moment become positive, with the threat of jail time if i did not comply.  I will not do that agian. I will not be responsable and try and do the right thing, i will not accept a letter from the health department(i will just throw it away)  I will not answer my phone for unknown numbers, and god help them showing up at my door .

If it’s available in your state I recommend the Walgreens drive through test to everyone.  They don’t collect any information besides your name, address, birthdate (no social or any other personal info), it’s free, and I’ve gotten results in less than 3 hours.

[N201MKTurbo]

In my case, I required no treatment or medication. I would have flown any time during the course of the disease. I didn’t even take any time off work, I tried to, but they wouldn’t let me. I just worked from home for two weeks. 

My point is, I hope they don’t ask for anything just because of a positive test. I never had anything that would have made me unsafe to fly.

[takair]

Just now, Davidv said:

If it’s available in your state I recommend the Walgreens drive through test to everyone.  They don’t collect any information besides your name, address, birthdate (no social or any other personal info), it’s free, and I’ve gotten results in less than 3 hours.

David...I guess this is my point.  The FAA letter further reduces our incentive to do the right thing.  If I read the letter right, even a false positive implies grounding until you get an FAA DME re-exam.....and, it is likely they will not want you in the office for some extended time.   (Rightly).  I certainly understand complications during hospitalization, but someone who is not symptomatic is impacted as well.  What I would be most worried about is what the criteria is for reissuance.  I would hate to be among the first to submit to this.  I did not expect COVID to go un-noticed by the FAA, but this does seem like a step too far on day one....with no public comment or disclosure prior?   

[Shiny moose]

My daughter tested postive( cold symtoms only but a friend was positive  ) she lives in a back buliding at my house. We thought we should get tested and then the shit show started. The health department could not understand that she lives at the same address but not in the house. My experience is that this is a bunch of bullshit that nobody really knows whats going on. 

Oh and everyone with an Iphone go to settings, privacy, health, and turn off your covid -19 tracking  

Edited July 30, 2020 by Shiny moose

[GeeBee]

27 minutes ago, takair said:

The difference appears to be that they want you to go in out of cycle. In other words, today we self police when between medicals, here they are specifically asking you to have a new exam immediately after, even if you just tested positive. Am I reading it wrong?  Seems like they are saying that a positive test is disqualifying until a re-exam. This usually requires some level of rule making and public comment, does it not?  I could have this wrong, but with the large numbers, and lack of clear guidance On what may be Acceptable for recertification, this could be yet another major blow to our pilot population. 

That is correct. It would appear if you were for instance hospitalized for viral pneumonia or influenza when you were declared well, you could return to flying status and only report the hospitalization on your next med express application. Here, it would appear you are medically disqualified to fly IF you have had Covid hospitalization or not, AND you must submit your data to the FAA and get clearance to fly from them, which sounds like special issuance to me.

[David Lloyd]

Covid-19 is an old Indian phrase meaning every government agency is to make up 19 new, silly rules.

[Rwsavory]

Has anyone actually seen a new FAA rule?  As Abraham Lincoln once said, “Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.”

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

Tell them to F off. 

That always works so well

[Davidv]

2 hours ago, takair said:

David...I guess this is my point.  The FAA letter further reduces our incentive to do the right thing.  If I read the letter right, even a false positive implies grounding until you get an FAA DME re-exam.....and, it is likely they will not want you in the office for some extended time.   (Rightly).  I certainly understand complications during hospitalization, but someone who is not symptomatic is impacted as well.  What I would be most worried about is what the criteria is for reissuance.  I would hate to be among the first to submit to this.  I did not expect COVID to go un-noticed by the FAA, but this does seem like a step too far on day one....with no public comment or disclosure prior?   

Yes, agreed.  I now realize that my response may have come across the wrong way.  I certainly did not mean everyone should get tested.  I only meant if you want or need to get tested Walgreens is a good way to go since the amount of information you need to provide them is minimal.

[DXB]

Someone with any lasting disability after a severe illness of any kind, COVID19 or not, should probably rethink their flying, discuss with their doctor, and be held accountable by the FAA.  

BUT "If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records"  What kind of idiocy is this?! What does "required care at home" even mean?!  Care like took some Tylenol and drank some Gatorade when you had symptoms on the mild side of the disease spectrum, which accounts for the vast majority of cases?   Also a person who got a positive test from a testing center generally has no reason to seek care of a "private doctor" unless they are in a high risk group or experiencing  shortness of breath and/or hypoxia.  

Who thinks up these garbage rules??   Oh wait...we already know the answer...just another government bureaucracy creating work to justify its existence. 

Rant over.     

[KB4]

11 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The state health department called me after I had it. I felt violated about that, I don’t remember signing anything that approved the release of my medical records. If the FAA calls me I’m going to sue someone.

Your cell carrier also gave them all your location information.  The contact tracing part.  

[Bravoman]

4 hours ago, Shiny moose said:

My daughter tested postive( cold symtoms only but a friend was positive  ) she lives in a back buliding at my house. We thought we should get tested and then the shit show started. The health department could not understand that she lives at the same address but not in the house. My experience is that this is a bunch of bullshit that nobody really knows whats going on. 

Oh and everyone with an Iphone go to settings, privacy, health, and turn off your covid -19 tracking  

Wow! Glad to know about yet another “big brother “ that I’m carrying around with my phone.