Dream to fly Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 It has been about a year and I think I have worked all of the bugs and gremlins out of the plane. I routinely fly at 135-145kts at 24/2400 8000ft. I am still looking for more speed like everyone else but until I can upgrade to a faster plane this will have to do. My question is when pulling the prop to lower RPM and increase pitch how far out do the handles pull. I can get to my target rpm in 1/2 - 3/4 pull of the cable. An instructor that was flying with me said that it seemed too quick. I am not having any problems that I know of and when the handle is pushed in I can hit 2700+ RPMs . I just want to be proactive and not have any surprises. I've had enough of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShuRugal Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 1/3 the handle travel to get from 2700 to 2300 is about right for me. When I want to do super slow cruise at 1900 RPM, that takes 2/3 to 3/4 of the travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 So 10kts is a big delta in cruise. why 24” 2400 I don’t think most “pull” on the prop control, most use the fine adjustment of the vernier by twisting counter clockwise. 1/2-3/4” seems completely reasonable. How mechanically inclined/aware is your instructor? I’ve met many young CFIs that don’t know what they don’t know...never seems to inhibit the voicing of their opinions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted July 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 So 10kts is a big delta in cruise. why 24” 2400 I don’t think most “pull” on the prop control, most use the fine adjustment of the vernier by twisting counter clockwise. 1/2-3/4” seems completely reasonable. How mechanically inclined/aware is your instructor? I’ve met many young CFIs that don’t know what they don’t know...never seems to inhibit the voicing of their opinions. That is how I was taught to fly the Mooney. Not wanting to venture outside the rules and deal with more issues that is how I've been flying it. I am getting to the point that unless I can prove a comment it is not worth worrying about. That was why I posted. To me it is working fine but I do not have a baseline to go by. As for pull I do twist I was explaining the cable travel. As for speed I went to KOLU from KHZE and had a 20+ kt headwind and it sucked but the return was awesome I had ground speeds that were well over 185kts. I wish I could fly that both ways. I am done chasing the speed fairy i just want to maintain what I have then get the hell out of this plane and get into something faster. Re-rigging helped and without any PC controls I can keep the plane fairly straight and level. I am hoping that adding an AP will make flying that much more enjoyable. For now when someone comments like this instructor I just research before chasing no-seems. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 Seems fine to me too as far as how much the prop control comes back, but @Shadrach comments are spot on... why 24/2400? 135-145 is a big delta? Whats your fuel flow? You have an F, are you Rich of Peak, Lean of peak, or at peak? At 8,000’, you can probably do any of those safely. Well maybe not peak - probably want to check that you’re below 65% for peak. As you get higher, you’ll find that you’re giving up a few knots by running 2400 vs 2500 or even 2600 if you’re higher. Also, just confirm that you’re running wide open “full” throttle? It doesn’t sound like you’re running the engine poorly, but there’s a lot of experience on here that can help you safely optimize your choice of power setting. Like are you after speed? Lowest fuel burn? Sightseeing? Etc. Are most of your trips around 8000’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted July 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Seems fine to me too as far as how much the prop control comes back, but @Shadrach comments are spot on... why 24/2400? 135-145 is a big delta? Whats your fuel flow? You have an F, are you Rich of Peak, Lean of peak, or at peak? At 8,000’, you can probably do any of those safely. As you get higher, you’ll find that you’re giving up a few knots by running 2400 vs 2500 or even 2600 if you’re higher. Also, just confirm that you’re running wide open “full” throttle? It doesn’t sound like you’re running the engine poorly, but there’s a lot of experience on here that can help you safely optimize your choice of power setting. Like are you after speed? Lowest fuel burn? Sightseeing? Etc. Are most of your trips around 8000’? I use the plane as a to/from vehicle. I rarely go up for fun. I have the plane to get places so I climb level and land. Kinda why I am so hell bent on speed. As for my Fuel flow I have a JPI 900 that has yet to work with fuel flow. my last flight I had a reading for about 15 minutes and it was reading 9.8 then I got the big red X. I've had the sensor out cleaned, checked the wires and just have walked away to keep my sanity. Tech support is blaming installation, and I have just conceded that It is aviation electronics and apparently the Gods of electrons don't want me to know fuel flow. But I run rich of peak taught as lean till it stumbles and back in a turn. As for the 24 squared I just set it and monitor. I have tried to get more on the MP but I am pretty sure that at 9500 I can't pull 25 or even 24inhg. I might be wrong but I think it is closer to 21. I honestly gave up on what the engine is doing and trying to peak the engine. I get to and from without incident and I am ok with that. I was only asking because this instructor was very persistent in pointing out the prop handle is not moving much to get the results we are getting. That was the reason for the post. I had no intentions of tracking a ghost just wanted to make sure it was operating correctly. Being in ND there are very few that know a Mooney inside and out that still are in business. The rest that think they do well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: I use the plane as a to/from vehicle. I rarely go up for fun. I have the plane to get places so I climb level and land. Kinda why I am so hell bent on speed. As for my Fuel flow I have a JPI 900 that has yet to work with fuel flow. my last flight I had a reading for about 15 minutes and it was reading 9.8 then I got the big red X. I've had the sensor out cleaned, checked the wires and just have walked away to keep my sanity. Tech support is blaming installation, and I have just conceded that It is aviation electronics and apparently the Gods of electrons don't want me to know fuel flow. But I run rich of peak taught as lean till it stumbles and back in a turn. As for the 24 squared I just set it and monitor. I have tried to get more on the MP but I am pretty sure that at 9500 I can't pull 25 or even 24inhg. I might be wrong but I think it is closer to 21. I honestly gave up on what the engine is doing and trying to peak the engine. I get to and from without incident and I am ok with that. I was only asking because this instructor was very persistent in pointing out the prop handle is not moving much to get the results we are getting. That was the reason for the post. I had no intentions of tracking a ghost just wanted to make sure it was operating correctly. Being in ND there are very few that know a Mooney inside and out that still are in business. The rest that think they do well...... Well if it makes you feel better, when I “pull” the prop back for cruise, I wind it back about a turn or two. The movement of the control is almost imperceptible. It doesn’t move much. sucks that your fuel flow isn’t working. I agree you’re probably getting 21” MP at that altitude. You don’t need the FF to be working right to lean properly though... your jpi900 has a lean find function “LF” that runs off the egt. Even if you decide not to do anything else, you should use the jpi to lean more accurately than “lean to roughness then back a turn”. Right now you’ve got a nice iPhone, but you’re using techniques from the 90s “cell phones”. Push the LF button, it should come up “ROP” which means it’s doing Rich of Peak. Lean slowly until it senses a peak on an egt and flashes. Then richen back until the delta temp reading shows 100. Much better. I might try 2500 rpm too. It might be smoother and it’s slightly faster. Nothing wrong with 2400 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted July 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Well if it makes you feel better, when I “pull” the prop back for cruise, I wind it back about a turn or two. The movement of the control is almost imperceptible. It doesn’t move much. sucks that your fuel flow isn’t working. I agree you’re probably getting 21” MP at that altitude. You don’t need the FF to be working right to lean properly though... your jpi900 has a lean find function “LF” that runs off the egt. Even if you decide not to do anything else, you should use the jpi to lean more accurately than “lean to roughness then back a turn”. Right now you’ve got a nice iPhone, but you’re using techniques from the 90s “cell phones”. Push the LF button, it should come up “ROP” which means it’s doing Rich of Peak. Lean slowly until it senses a peak on an egt and flashes. Then richen back until the delta temp reading shows 100. Much better. I might try 2500 rpm too. It might be smoother and it’s slightly faster. Nothing wrong with 2400 though. I will try that when I have more time. I am glad this board exists for questions just like this. It does save me time chasing the not needed. What I would really like to do is drop my plane off with one of you GUROs and say have at it. call me when it goes fast. I wish I would have known about the forum before I bought. I would have never jumped into what I have. Education is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 This isn't good, but it's the best picture I have of my quadrant in flight at 9000msl, 2500 RPM. Not the same as yours, but the prop lever is pretty far forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 1/2” to 3/4” seems reasonable if the governor is limiting to 2700 when full in. Some of it depends on the rigging. When the blue knob is in, it may have about a 1/16” to 1/4” gap from the nut (all the knobs are best set with a small gap). This insures that the stop at the governor is setting the limit. Some will rig it different, yielding different movement. What kind of gap do you have full forward? The age of the governor, oil type and temp will also make a difference. I know you weren’t asking, but you have mentioned speed a few times in the thread. As others have suggested, you may want to try 2500RPM cruise and 100ROP if you are trying to maximize speed. (Even at 100ROP you will be More efficient than anything Certified out there for the speed). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 18, 2020 Report Share Posted July 18, 2020 If speed is your requirement... Follow Rob’s advice above... Each 100 rpm at altitude is a handful of percentage points more power... for my plane 200rpm is 10% more HP.... during the T/O run... When you can’t get more MP, use more rpm... The limitation of using 2700 rpm is vibration and FF... For the IO550s that are capable of using 2700rpm, 2550 is a common cruise rpm... For your next plane... find a Mooney with an IO550 in it... Joe, are you ready? Want to discuss FF sensor installation and locations...? We haven’t had this discussion in much detail lately... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 The amount of "pull" you get going to a particular lower RPM is governed by the distance from center that the prop control connection on the prop governor is from the center of the disc it is fastened onto. Mooneys may have one distance Cessnas may have another, Pipers may yet have another. Different governors have different "discs" that the control attaches to. Larger disc equals more pull for the same rotation of the disc. If your instructor is used to Cessnas and now is comparing what he is "used" to he may be chasing apples and oranges. One is different than the other. The governor in the middle has a large disc (control attaches to the bottom of the aluminum disc at the pointy end)(more pull) than the short arm (on top) on the right side one (shorter pull for the same RPM change). It all depends on what governor is installed. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prior owner Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) On 7/17/2020 at 3:14 PM, Hank said: This isn't good, but it's the best picture I have of my quadrant in flight at 9000msl, 2500 RPM. Not the same as yours, but the prop lever is pretty far forward. I can’t believe that someone from the anal retentive club didn’t pipe up when they saw that picture. I guess This post gets me into the club. Your vacuum is reading kinda high... Edited July 19, 2020 by PilotCoyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47U Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Just now, PilotCoyote said: I can’t believe that someone from the anal retentive club didn’t pipe up when they saw that picture. I guess This post gets me into the club. Your vacuum is reading kinda high... Ok, I’ll join in... Especially for 9K... I do like the look of a vintage panel... glass is great, but there’s no nostalgia. Guess I’m a dinosaur. tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, 47U said: Ok, I’ll join in... Especially for 9K... Does the vacuum pump lose suction as altitude increases? First I've heard that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Taylor Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 I've got an unrelated question...what is that thing just to the right of the gear switch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47U Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Hank said: Does the vacuum pump lose suction as altitude increases? First I've heard that. I guess it might depend on how tired your vacuum pump is, and how well your vacuum regulator adjusts. I just put a new pump on last annual and commonly see 1/4” loss of vacuum at 5000’. Maybe my regulator is more tired than most? Another reason to go glass and ditch the nostalgia. tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Ross Taylor said: I've got an unrelated question...what is that thing just to the right of the gear switch? Someone asks that every time I post a picture showing it. All I know is it came with the plane, and seems designed to turn off the landing light when raising the gear on departure. Since going LED, I've gotten pretty good at not hitting the switch so the light stays on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.