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Aspen Pro EDF 1000 Altitude/VS Preselect


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14 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

If you do not already have an Alt Preselect for your Autopilot, you need the Aspen EA100 module (which I think is actually built by a company in Europe).  This basically just triggers the Alt Hold on your Autopilot and does not change the climb/descent rate to "capture" the altitude. 

So if you're climbing at 1,000+ ft/min you'll go right through the altitude and the AP will aggressively bring you back to the preselected altitude.

No,  the EA-100 (Electronic Attitude-100) allows you to use  the Aspen for Attitude (AHRS) for the older Autopilots. It has nothing to do with pre-select.

(https://aspenavionics.com/products/ea100-adapter-for-autopilots/)

 

Avionik Straubing, a German Company, made an interface for a KFC200 autopilot for pre-select for an Aspen. It does not work with the 150 series of King Autopilots

(https://aspenavionics.com/products/aps4a-altitude-preselect/)

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Exactly what [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] said. When you have a Baro change just click off ALT on your KAP-150 bump the rocker up or down and hit ALT when you're back at the correct altitude.
Altitude pre-select has to be done through the KAS-297B (you should have a KAS-297B not a KAS-297).
On your panel you have three places to change the Altimeter setting: The KEA130 altimeter which what your pre-select gets its info from, your G5 and your Aspen. You'll still have to adjust your altitude manually as I mentioned at the beginning every time you get a new altimeter setting. 
The KFC/KAP 150 Pilot's Guide sort of explains it (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mcixf7xlr4ecral/KFC 150 Pilots Guide.pdf?dl=0)
 

That’s exactly what I do with the STEC. Click the 20’ altitude correction button if I need to adjust altitude due to a new altimeter setting.


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1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Exactly what @Marauder said. When you have a Baro change just click off ALT on your KAP-150 bump the rocker up or down and hit ALT when you're back at the correct altitude.

Altitude pre-select has to be done through the KAS-297B (you should have a KAS-297B not a KAS-297).

On your panel you have three places to change the Altimeter setting: The KEA130 altimeter which is what your pre-select gets its info from, your G5 and your Aspen. You'll still have to adjust your altitude manually, as I mentioned at the beginning, every time you get a new altimeter setting. 

The KFC/KAP 150 Pilot's Guide sort of explains it (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mcixf7xlr4ecral/KFC 150 Pilots Guide.pdf?dl=0)

 

OK, yes a 297B. 

I was cruising at 11,000.  AP was Altitude Hold.  Fine and dandy.   So I reset the KEA130 baro setting so I was now showing about 300 feet off altitude.  AP did nothing.

And if I set an altitude on the 297B, and Arm, no indication and it does not capture the altitude.

 

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1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

OK, yes a 297B. 

I was cruising at 11,000.  AP was Altitude Hold.  Fine and dandy.   So I reset the KEA130 baro setting so I was now showing about 300 feet off altitude.  AP did nothing.

And if I set an altitude on the 297B, and Arm, no indication and it does not capture the altitude.

 

You need a digital autopilot like the GFC-500 to be able to have the plane adjust altitude automatically after a baro change.

As Chris said, you'll need to change the alt manually an in order to get the 297B to capture the altitude above or below, I believe you need to set a VS on the indicator to get it going. But with all the required buttonology, I just used the CWS button to make the typical 20-40' altitude change.

Edited by kortopates
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1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

OK, yes a 297B. 

I was cruising at 11,000.  AP was Altitude Hold.  Fine and dandy.   So I reset the KEA130 baro setting so I was now showing about 300 feet off altitude.  AP did nothing.

And if I set an altitude on the 297B, and Arm, no indication and it does not capture the altitude.

 

You would have also needed to set VS (Vertical Speed) to reach the altitude that you set.

EDIT: oops, @kortopates beat me to it

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2 hours ago, kortopates said:

You need a digital autopilot like the GFC-500 to be able to have the plane adjust altitude automatically after a baro change.

As Chris said, you'll need to change the alt manually an in order to get the 297B to capture the altitude above or below, I believe you need to set a VS on the indicator to get it going. But with all the required buttonology, I just used the CWS button to make the typical 20-40' altitude change.

IIRC the kfc-225 would automatically adjust altitude after a baro change. 
 

4 hours ago, Pinecone said:

And if I set an altitude on the 297B, and Arm, no indication and it does not capture the altitude.

 

Not sure if your 297 or 130 is malfunctioning or the Aspen installer just cut the wrong wires. They might have connected the AP to a blind encoder vs the 130? The altitude preselect originally was driven off the encoding altimeter. The g500 glass (via the gad 43e) and maybe the 275 w/ legacy interface can output the encoding altimeter info but the Aspen boxes cannot. I think that’s part of the confusion above… the garmin gad 43e does output the info and the Aspen ea100 does not.

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4 hours ago, MIm20c said:

IIRC the kfc-225 would automatically adjust altitude after a baro change. 
 

Not sure if your 297 or 130 is malfunctioning or the Aspen installer just cut the wrong wires. They might have connected the AP to a blind encoder vs the 130? The altitude preselect originally was driven off the encoding altimeter. The g500 glass (via the gad 43e) and maybe the 275 w/ legacy interface can output the encoding altimeter info but the Aspen boxes cannot. I think that’s part of the confusion above… the garmin gad 43e does output the info and the Aspen ea100 does not.

My KFC225 in a 2000 Ovation did not adjust after a baro change.

 

It looks like he is selecting the altitude without selecting the Vertical speed, which does nothing.

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3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I will try the vertical speed.

As for not changing altitude with a baro change, how does the autopilot know it was a baro change and not just off altitude???

The new General Aviation autopilots introduced in the past few years have introduced recapturing selected altitude when you do a Baro change, Ones before the GFC700 introduced back in 2006-ish didn't do that.

On the KAP150 the A/P held the altitude based on the Baro setting either when you pressed ALT or when the KAS-297B captured the pre-selected altitude. If you are going to change the Baro setting on a legacy A/P you'll now have to get up or down to the altitude you want by de-selecting alt and using the rocker switch or setting up VS and capture,  or like @kortopates mentioned using Control Wheel Steering.

 

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So it actually tracks that the baro setting has been changed?
 
Strange way to do things.

it’s holding pressure altitude based, when you activate altitude, on the static line connected to it. the KAS-297 then adds the ability to change altitudes by setting an Alt and VS


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13 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I must be having a (young) senior moment... I remember small changes to the 130a altimeter would have the 225 AP still hold the indicated altitude. That’s the whole point of having an encoding altimeter for preselect and maintaining altitude during pressure changes.  

Once you've leveled off, the KFC225 that I had didn't adjust altitude for Baro changes.  Neither the KFC-225 Pilot's Guide nor the Mooney AFMS mentions anything about it  but maybe you had a special version. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ap1tgp94cf6xgdp/KFC225 manual.pdf?dl=0     

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo5lszgdjjrwzv0/Bendix-King-KFC225.pdf?dl=0

 

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I must be having a (young) senior moment... I remember small changes to the 130a altimeter would have the 225 AP still hold the indicated altitude. That’s the whole point of having an encoding altimeter for preselect and maintaining altitude during pressure changes.  

indeed you are right,
page 12
https://www.bendixking.com/content/dam/bendixking/en/documents/downloads/006-18035-0000_1-KFC-225-KI-525A-Pilot-s-Guide.pdf


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22 hours ago, kortopates said:

Thanks Paul!  I was hoping my mind wasn’t going that fast. I figured that’s the way all the king AP’s (with altitude preselect) worked but it sound like a feature that only the 225 had. 

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1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

Thanks Paul!  I was hoping my mind wasn’t going that fast. I figured that’s the way all the king AP’s (with altitude preselect) worked but it sound like a feature that only the 225 had. 

Yeah, only with the 225 and the GAD-43E doesn't fix that either unfortunately, but it does provide the same functionality of the KAS-207B and allow ditching the encoding altimeter. Aspen users have to keep all that stuff.

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The one thing that surprised me about BK’s integration between the six pack and the AP….

The altitude info the KAP150 is using comes from a connection to the static line… and not the altimeter…

As do many other APs and brands…

 

It holds an attitude when told to…

It increases altitude at a rate it is told to…. Same for descent…

 

But, it does nothing when the altimeter says it is off… like after changing the baro knob…

 

Getting to the correct altitude… it is usually easiest for me to start the assent/descent by any means convenient…. And hit the altitude hold button as it passes through the altitude you want…

It remembers the static line pressure you want and goes about its business of settling in on that pressure best it can…

It May oscillate, overshoot, or come back… but it will be right on the money of where you pushed the hold button…

 

Other things that happen weird… is when the static line becomes disconnected from the AP…. All kinds of annoying altitude control problems occur… because the AP is sensing pressure inside our vaccuum’d cabin…

Some APs are plumbed with rubber hoses to the static line… a good rubber hose may last 20years… and leak after 21…. Or fall off at 30…. :)

Oddly… it isn’t really altitude hold… it is static line pressure hold…   and we never know what the static line pressure really is… at any time…

PP thoughts only,

-a-

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10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Getting to the correct altitude… it is usually easiest for me to start the assent/descent by any means convenient…. And hit the altitude hold button as it passes through the altitude you want…

It remembers the static line pressure you want and goes about its business of settling in on that pressure best it can…

1.  Sounds like you don't have a KAS-297b?

2.  Why is the KEA-130a Encoding Altimeter required if a pitot line is required

I've been trying to diagram the whole system with all the interconnections.

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2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Then why does it need a special altimeter?

 

To provide grey code altitude information to the KAS-297B. When you are in level flight with altitude capture, you can dial in a new Baro setting all you want. The airplane is level at that point and is given no command to climb or descend with that new Baro setting. You will have to give it that command in any of the three ways that have been mentioned.

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People are confusing a KAP or KFC-150 with or without a KAS-297B. Most do not have the KAS-297B. i can’t say what percentage do except it’s in the minority. But there is no VS climbing/descending to an pre-selected altitude without it, just a constant pitch climb/descent with a manual level out.


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1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

1.  Sounds like you don't have a KAS-297b?

2.  Why is the KEA-130a Encoding Altimeter required if a pitot line is required

I've been trying to diagram the whole system with all the interconnections.

The manual below, page 2-9 gives you the connection between the KAS-297B and the KEA-130A altimeter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kq5oy5g8l8hoz6/KAS-297B-INSTALL-MANUAL.pdf?dl=0

You won't find a KAS-297B that wasn't originally without a KEA-130A in a Mooney. I've had 7 Mooneys and four of them have had this combo. @larryb worked his electronic magic and figured out a circuit to provide this in his Aspen installation.

The only Mooney I owned w/o alt pre-select had a KFC-200, so no KEA-130A and I also had an Ovation with a KFC-225, which has alt pre-selected built into the box, but still needed the KEA-130A. The one I have now has the GFC-700 which is the only autopilot I've ever flown with Baro corrrection in level flight.

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5 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The manual below, page 2-9 gives you the connection between the KAS-297B and the KEA-130A altimeter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kq5oy5g8l8hoz6/KAS-297B-INSTALL-MANUAL.pdf?dl=0

You won't find a KAS-297B installed without a KEA-130A in a Mooney. I've had 7 Mooneys and five of them have had this combo. The other one w/o alt pre-select had a KFC-200 and I also had an Ovation with a KFC-225 which has alt pre-selected built in to the box, but still needed the KEA-130A. 

Thanks.

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