KFC-150 Go Around/Missed Approach Procedure

[Greg_D]

I haven't seen any KFC-150 setups with a go-around button.  I've seen numerous setups with that feature on the KFC-200.  For the 150 guys without the button, what procedure are you using to execute a missed approach?  What about doing so with the AP still coupled?  I have gone back and forth between using CWS and the VS rocker switch, but was just curious how others are doing it.

[gsxrpilot]

Once established on the glideslope, I reset my altitude pre-select for the altitude of the missed approach point and the appropriate vertical speed. Then at the missed, it's just a button push on the preselect and add power. My IFD540 sequences to the MAP automatically.

[BorealOne]

It's a bit of a two step process without altitude pre-select, however. Garmin 530W use OBS to sequence the next waypoint, but altitude needs to be managed using either the CWS or the altitude up rocker switch. Depending on conditions, I've used either or both. Going missed at minimums, I'm usually happier using the CWS, as my right hand is busy doing lots of other things (power, gear, flaps, trim...) followed by alt-hold once I'm there.

[Greg_D]

20 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Once established on the glideslope, I reset my altitude pre-select for the altitude of the missed approach point and the appropriate vertical speed. Then at the missed, it's just a button push on the preselect and add power. My IFD540 sequences to the MAP automatically.

Not sure I'm following you.  Do you set the missed approach altitude or the altitude at the missed approach point?

[gsxrpilot]

49 minutes ago, Greg_D said:

Not sure I'm following you.  Do you set the missed approach altitude or the altitude at the missed approach point?

Yes, sorry. I set the altitude pre-select to the altitude of the hold on the missed approach. So if the MAP procedure is to climb to 6000 right turn to 360 direct HYGEN, I'd set the altitude pre-select to 6000 and the climb to 500 ft/min (or as required). The IFD540 will handle the right turn to the fix and the hold.  So all I have to do is push the button on the pre-select and add power.

[jlunseth]

I have the KFC200 and only altitude hold, however, I see some flaws in what has been recommended.  You must follow what is on the approach plate. Let's say the missed approach procedure on the plate is to climb straight ahead to 3000 and then fly to a missed hold point to hold. You are not permitted to fly to 3000 other than straight ahead, and until you are at 3000 you cannot fly other than straight ahead to reach the missed hold point. At the missed approach point (i.e. RWY31) the GPS goes into "SUSP" and only provides guidance in terms of the final approach course you have dialed in, and the missed waypoint. In other words, if the missed approach waypoint is RWY31, the final approach course is 304, and the "climb to" altitude is 3,000, you must fly at best climb rate, along the 304 course, to the "climb to" altitude, before doing anything else, such as hitting the OBS button.

The way I do it is to hand fly the "climb to" part of the missed without sequencing the GPS to the missed hold point. Once at the "climb to" altitude, you can then hit the OBS button and allow the AP to fly you to the missed hold point by whatever course is in the GPS. Maybe the 150 has the capability to do this with the AP, but I don't think so, read your manual. Also, the missed may have multiple altitudes, say a left turn to 2600, then fly a course to the hold point and hold at 3000.  You can't just dial in 3,000 and let the AP do what it wants. You must complete the left turn to 2600 before any course change to the missed approach point.

The "Go Around" button is not for misses. It is for go arounds.  It sets a medium climb rate, its around 500 fpm. As a general rule, it does not set a high enough climb rate to do a missed climb.

If you are doing a missed and need to climb straight ahead to an altitude, you need to climb as rapidly as possible. If you don't, with some approaches, you may fly past the missed hold point before you ever get to the assigned altitude. Or the approach may have a turn from a waypoint and if you don't climb fast enough you will miss the first turn. Power management is very important if you need to do a max rate climb. So I hand fly so that if something happens with airspeed or power management in this phase, I am in control and can quickly drop the nose as needed rather than have the AP doggedly try to climb to altitude with not enough power.

The bottom line is follow the missed approach procedure on the plate. Do not hit the OBS button to sequence the missed approach course until you have accomplished the "climb to" part of the missed and reached the "climb to" altitude. 

PS I should clarify what I mean about "best climb rate." We learn Vx and Vy for our VFR, Private Pilot cert. But this is IFR, not VFR, and being a little more conservative in turn and climb rates is better.  Vx is too aggressive for me in IFR, and Vy is not aggressive  to make many of the "climb to" altitudes. I fly best glide, which turns out to be a good compromise. It gets the aircraft to altitude fairly rapidly and leaves a little room if something happens and the pilot needs to tip the nose down to prevent a stall in the climb. Best glide varies in my aircraft from 81 to 85 depending on gross weight. I just use 85, or if I have a little room, 90 kts.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by jlunseth

[squeaky.stow]

5 hours ago, jlunseth said:

The "Go Around" button is not for misses. It is for go arounds.  It sets a medium climb rate, its around 500 fpm. As a general rule, it does not set a high enough climb rate to do a missed climb.

If you are doing a missed and need to climb straight ahead to an altitude, you need to climb as rapidly as possible.

I am probably misinterpreting your words here. (I often do)  But I am not sure I understand.

Standard missed approach climb gradient for a TERPS approach design (FAA standard) is 2.5%. At a ground speed of 90 knots that’s only 228 fpm. So using 500 fpm is double what you need for most  missed approaches. Also, holding points that are close to the missed approach point usually allow for a shuttle climb right in the missed approach instructions.

 

[squeaky.stow]

Small correction to my last. The obstacle clearance plane for the missed approach is 2.5% or 152 ft/nm. The minimum climb gradient expected is 200 ft/nm which equates to 300 fpm at 90 knots GS. 

[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, jlunseth said:

I have the KFC200 and only altitude hold, however, I see some flaws in what has been recommended.  You must follow what is on the approach plate. Let's say the missed approach procedure on the plate is to climb straight ahead to 3000 and then fly to a missed hold point to hold. You are not permitted to fly to 3000 other than straight ahead, and until you are at 3000 you cannot fly other than straight ahead to reach the missed hold point. At the missed approach point (i.e. RWY31) the GPS goes into "SUSP" and only provides guidance in terms of the final approach course you have dialed in, and the missed waypoint. In other words, if the missed approach waypoint is RWY31, the final approach course is 304, and the "climb to" altitude is 3,000, you must fly at best climb rate, along the 304 course, to the "climb to" altitude, before doing anything else, such as hitting the OBS button.

This depends on the GPS you have in your plane. I have the Avidyne IFD540. There's no need to hit the OBS button or any other button. It automatically sequences to the Missed and flies it exactly as published. All I have to do is initiate the climb. So as I said, once I'm established on the glide slope, I dial the target altitude for the missed, into my Altitude preselect, and set the ft/min to something that exceeds the requirement of the missed. Typically I use 500 ft/min.  So to go missed, all I have to do with the Avidyne IFD540 is push Arm on the altitude preselect and shove in the throttle. 

[PTK]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:46 AM, Greg_D said:

What about doing so with the AP still coupled?  I have gone back and forth between using CWS and the VS rocker switch, but was just curious how others are doing it.

I prefer to disengage the AP and execute the missed by hand. Once I have the airplane setup in the climb I may use CWS to engage the FD or engage the AP. 

One subtle point: if flying an ILS and the missed approach calls for tracking the final course outbound I do so in nav mode. This eliminates the possibility of an inadvertent GS coupling.

 

[Greg_D]

"The "Go Around" button is not for misses. It is for go arounds.  It sets a medium climb rate, its around 500 fpm. As a general rule, it does not set a high enough climb rate to do a missed climb."

I'll have to disagree with that.  In the airlines and at the 135 outfits I have flown at, all takeoffs and go arounds were done with the TOGA button pressed.  I would think it would be even more beneficial to execute a missed with the AP coupled while operating single pilot, especially in IMC.

[Greg_D]

43 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This depends on the GPS you have in your plane. I have the Avidyne IFD540. There's no need to hit the OBS button or any other button. It automatically sequences to the Missed and flies it exactly as published. All I have to do is initiate the climb. So as I said, once I'm established on the glide slope, I dial the target altitude for the missed, into my Altitude preselect, and set the ft/min to something that exceeds the requirement of the missed. Typically I use 500 ft/min.  So to go missed, all I have to do with the Avidyne IFD540 is push Arm on the altitude preselect and shove in the throttle. 

I think most of the modern WAAS units cycle to the missed automatically.  With a TOGA button, all you would have to do is add the power, get the gear up, and then retract the flaps.

[jlunseth]

2 hours ago, squeaky.stow said:

I am probably misinterpreting your words here. (I often do)  But I am not sure I understand.

Standard missed approach climb gradient for a TERPS approach design (FAA standard) is 2.5%. At a ground speed of 90 knots that’s only 228 fpm. So using 500 fpm is double what you need for most  missed approaches. Also, holding points that are close to the missed approach point usually allow for a shuttle climb right in the missed approach instructions.

 

You might be right, what I am saying is that the climb gradient the Go Around button creates is not enough to fly a missed approach. Maybe it is less than 500. I haven’t used the button for an actual go around in years.  What I can tell you is that I used it to try fly a few missed approaches and it does not get you there.  Did the FAA change their design criteria, because I can think of one approach near here (RNAV31 at KGYL) that had what sure seemed to be a steeper climb rate than that.  It was redesigned a year or two ago. A new hold point was created much further out than the original.

@GregD. The question was about the Go Around button in a KFC 200 which is what I have. The TOGA button in a Boeing is probably a completely different thing.  The Go Around button in the 200 sets a pitch up only, it is up to the pilot to set the power and thus the climb rate. I have the 430AW and it does not cycle to the missed hold point automatically. It goes into Suspend mode at the missed. You must push the OBS button to cause it to cycle through the missed course, and you must wait to do that until you have climbed to the “climb to” altitude on the plate. After you hit the OBS it will cycle automatically.

Edited July 20, 2020 by jlunseth

[jlunseth]

I had to go to my POH, Supplemental Data section, but I found the information on the Go Around button. It sets a fixed pitch up of 6 degrees and disengages the AP. It cancels all vertical modes as well as APPR or NAV CPLD. As I said, it does not manage power or configuration, so does not manage the climb rate. Easier to just disengage the AP and do it yourself. These numbers apply to the 200 in the 231 only, the King manual says that the Go Around establishes a pitch that depends on the particular aircraft it is installed in.

[Greg_D]

"The Go Around button in the 200 sets a pitch up only, it is up to the pilot to set the power and thus the climb rate."

That's pretty much what it does in most airplanes without auto-throttles.  All of the regional jets I've flown, the Embraer Phenoms, Citations, even the PC12s did the same thing.  The climb rate achieved was nowhere near Vy or Vx.  I'm sure there was some calculating done to determine the climb gradient met the TERPs criteria.

If the hold point on the missed is straight ahead, why would you need to wait until you get to altitude to hit the OBS button?  If a turn was involved, I'd just use TOGA and once the climb was established, I'd use the heading bug until I could go direct to the fix.  Maybe I'm missing something...

"I had to go to my POH, Supplemental Data section, but I found the information on the Go Around button. It sets a fixed pitch up of 6 degrees and disengages the AP"

Ah, good find.  I don't think the G5s or the GI-275s operate like that.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Greg_D

[squeaky.stow]

Agreed. Establishing the correct rate of climb is up to the pilot. The GA button is, however, intended for the initiation of a missed approach according to the BK KFC 200 Pilot’s Guide. Nothing wrong with using it to initiate the GA at minimums.

[squeaky.stow]

57 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

You must push the OBS button to cause it to cycle through the missed course, and you must wait to do that until you have climbed to the “climb to” altitude on the plate. After you hit the OBS it will cycle automatically.

I’m still fuzzy on why you have to wait until you are at the missed approach altitude to sequence to the next waypoint. As long as you have passed the MAP waypoint, the gps will give you valid lateral guidance for the missed approach if you let it. 
Missed approach instructions are designed for obstacle clearance so as long as you are climbing at at least 200 ft/nm you are safe to follow them.

[jlunseth]

4 hours ago, Greg_D said:

 

If the hold point on the missed is straight ahead, why would you need to wait until you get to altitude to hit the OBS button?  If a turn was involved, I'd just use TOGA and once the climb was established, I'd use the heading bug until I could go direct to the fix.  Maybe I'm missing something...

"I had to go to my POH, Supplemental Data section, but I found the information on the Go Around button. It sets a fixed pitch up of 6 degrees and disengages the AP"

 

Sure if the missed hold point is straight ahead, or if there is an intermediate waypoint straight ahead from which a turn is then made, you can hit the OBS before you get to the missed altitude. Its the same course.  But if it is not you cannot hit the OBS with the AP engaged and cause the plane to turn from the straight ahead missed until you reach altitude. For my money its best to build good habits, i.e. don’t hit the button until you are at the climb to altitude, but as I said, if it is a straight ahead course that is just a judgment call.

@squeaky - unless the next waypoint after the missed is straight ahead, and if you have the AP engaged, then hitting the OBS before you reach the “climb to” altitude results in the aircraft turning off the straight ahead missed course before you have reached the “climb to” altitude. You can’t do that.

On the KFC200 manual, it says “A wings-level and pitch-up command is displayed by the FCI [the Flight Director] and “GA” is lighted on the Annunciator Panel. The magnitude of the pitch-up command is set to match Flight Manual criteria for each aircraft model.”  How much pitch up is specific to the aircraft and you have to look in the Supplemental section of your POH to find it, and other information relevant to the KFC200 in your aircraft. That governs, the KFC manual is general. To translate, when you hit “Go Around” in the 231, the AP is disengaged and the Flight Director shows a 6 degree pitch up and straight ahead course. That’s not very helpful, you are now hand flying the aircraft in the missed climb, which is what I do.  If you are at or near final landing speed, which is where you should be at the DA, the climb rate generated by a 6 degree pitch up is barely more than staying level, you will need more than that when you have reconfigured and have sufficient power in to start the climb. In any event, that is where the missed should always start, with the addition of power.

Here’s the point. You can’t turn off a straight ahead missed course until you have reached the climb to altitude. If hitting the OBS button will vector you off that course, don’t hit it, and in particular don’t hit it if you have the AP engaged and it will follow the off course instruction.

[squeaky.stow]

20 hours ago, jlunseth said:

@squeaky - unless the next waypoint after the missed is straight ahead, and if you have the AP engaged, then hitting the OBS before you reach the “climb to” altitude results in the aircraft turning off the straight ahead missed course before you have reached the “climb to” altitude. You can’t do that.

Ok, now I get what you are saying. I think. As I said, I have been known to misinterpret....

Now that I read again I see you are talking about the “climb to” altitude which is the minimum altitude you must reach before beginning a turn to follow the missed approach routing. I thought you were talking about the missed approach altitude which is the altitude specified on the plate that you must climb to during the missed approach procedure. 
 

So if you are talking about the “climb to” altitude rather than the missed approach altitude, I completely agree that you can’t turn before reaching that altitude. Whether or not you sequence the waypoints is up to the pilot. FWIW, Garmin’s 430/530 pilot guide actually does say to hit the OBS button to initiate the missed approach, but as you say, it is still up to you to ensure that the missed approach instructions are followed. The GPS may or may not have all of those instructions coded.
 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It appears we were all saying the same thing in different ways.

 

[carusoam]

18 minutes ago, squeaky.stow said:

It appears we were all saying the same thing in different ways.

 

The beauty of MS...

Many of us speak English as a second language....

Others speak English of various varieties depending on certain variables... like Age and/or location....

A few MSers even speak Olde English because of where they live...

Some of us fly professionally... that is a Pro-English....
 

Sometimes Siri takes charge and changes our perfect English for whatever the kids in Palo Alto would be thinking... do Paddle Boards have any Go-around features?   

When not sure... ask.... If still unsure.... ask in a different way...
 

The more you get to know MSers... the more you find out we are very much the same, yet very different from each other... 
 

What a community!

Best regards,

-a-