Mooney Search Questions

[LDI]

6 minutes ago, AUWDE said:

LDI thank you for this post. I’m also new to the site and looking to get in to a Mooney. You have saved me a lot of time with this post. Thanks to everyone for the great information. 

A question not asked was ownership structure.  This will be my first owned plane (not rental) and am curious if most owners structure an LLC for their planes? 

I’m so glad you jumped in. I haven’t gotten that far but also planning to research the best structure! Thanks!

[LDI]

I assumed the LLC would be for business expenses in addition to liability protection. What are the limitations assuming you are actually using for business purposes. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Counter point: I've never "almost burned up my starter."

But if I had an M20F, I would absolutely want the extra 20 horses also.

Well sure, but I wrote it tongue in cheek... tough to sense the sarcasm in a written sentence though.  So yeah, if you do it wrong, it’s hard to hot start an IO-360.  If you do it right, it’s not.  

[carusoam]

Tongue in cheek indicator.... 

 

Its so hard to sense sometimes....

-a-

[SantosDumont]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Oh jeez, here we go with the hot start debate!  

Well I have a TCM IO-360 in my F, not the Lycoming, so we have to start a whole Conti vs Lycoming debate too!

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, SantosDumont said:

Well I have a TCM IO-360 in my F, not the Lycoming, so we have to start a whole Conti vs Lycoming debate too!

Does it eat cylinders like the SR-20 at our Flightschool?

[kortopates]

Just now, Ragsf15e said:

Does it eat cylinders like the SR-20 at our Flightschool?

Its exactly the same ES engine with altitude compensating fuel pump, but a much smarter operator! So I really doubt it.

 

[kortopates]

I assumed the LLC would be for business expenses in addition to liability protection. What are the limitations assuming you are actually using for business purposes. 

You didn't mention you would have other partner owners? The LLC only provides liability protection when another partner owner is flying it and is involved in a mishap. It doesn't provide any protection when you're flying it.

Also different states charge different fees, for example Calif charges $800 a year for an LLC.  But if your the only LLC member/owner, its just an added annual expense. I don't know about business expenses though since my plane is purely a toy.

Like some others have mentioned I'd only want FI as well. And once you've tasted turbo performance, I don't know many that could ever go back to NA. But that's me.

IMO the buying decision is much easier than what the detailed spreadsheet with pivot tables  we often see implies.  Simply decide how much you're willing to devote to your annual flying budget per year. IMO you need to be comfortable with at least $20K. The acquisition cost won't even factor into it after the first year (unless perhaps financing it).  

Edited July 9, 2020 by kortopates

[SantosDumont]

20 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Does it eat cylinders like the SR-20 at our Flightschool?

We'll see.  It had all the cylinders replaced at 1440.  The new cylinders have ~800 hours on them. So far my plan is to just check that the valves aren't burning and keep temps under 400F and watch the engine monitor for changes... I'll be happy if I can get 1400 hours out of these cylinders.  I wouldn't say I'm any smarter, but I'm definitely more conservative than the dude that put the engine in and then did the whole trans Atlantic voyage to Australia through the Middle East and Asia.

[Ragsf15e]

11 minutes ago, SantosDumont said:

We'll see.  It had all the cylinders replaced at 1440.  The new cylinders have ~800 hours on them. So far my plan is to just check that the valves aren't burning and keep temps under 400F and watch the engine monitor for changes... I'll be happy if I can get 1400 hours out of these cylinders.  I wouldn't say I'm any smarter, but I'm definitely more conservative than the dude that put the engine in and then did the whole trans Atlantic voyage to Australia through the Middle East and Asia.

On the bright side, if it does eat cylinders, they are probably cheaper than the angle valve lyc cylinders on IO-360s.  Only thing worse is the io-390 cylinders, but then the newer sr-20s have those!  Your conti cylinders are probably reasonably priced and that didn’t look good to the Cirrus crowd!

[AUWDE]

Thanks carusoam. I did look at the other LLC threads. And kortopates you point is key for my situation as there will be another pilot so liability is the main issue. As most everyone points out on MS they aren’t bulletproof but it appears it does lesson the liability if you are not the pilot at the time of a mishap.

thanks for the overall budget input. I had looked at the numbers and came up with a similar budget for overall costs (25-30k as new pilot so higher insurance) with a reserve of 10k for unexpected repairs. 

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. 

 

 

[LDI]

On 7/8/2020 at 2:09 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Just so you go in with eyes wide open...

I own an F based in Spokane.  It’s great during summer in Washington, so june, july, August, sometimes September.  It’s not gonna get you across the cascades or into Spokane more than once a month from December through March.  Maybe a few times a month the “shoulder” months.

I don’t mind flying IFR, but Icing is a significant factor up here and I find it hard to fly my airplane anywhere in the winter.  On days I can fly, it’s difficult to forecast the next days icing, so returning home is an issue.  Local flights are the norm.

@Ragsf15e thank you for the reminder. You have me thinking about icing, IFR, and altitude.  Even boots or TKS on piston would have me questioning. I'm not sure I have an answer until you get into turboprop.  

[Ragsf15e]

5 minutes ago, LDI said:

@Ragsf15e thank you for the reminder. You have me thinking about icing, IFR, and altitude.  Even boots or TKS on piston would have me questioning. I'm not sure I have an answer until you get into turboprop.  

Definitely. 
I fly a Turboprop for work and it’s fine all winter.  Yeah there’s bad icing at times but the climb and descent is fast enough that you are out of it pretty quickly.  The turboprop is fine here.

Ive been contemplating finding an Eagle with tks for flying in Eastern Washington in the winter.  Usually we just have a thousand feet or so of clouds with icing from 1000-2000’agl and then it’s nice on top.  It would really increase your dispatch options.  Crossing the cascades in an NA airplane in the winter is still gonna be dicey.  The minimum ifr altitudes are pretty darn high and right where icing is common.  Even with tks, you don’t wanna plan on cruising in icing.

I actually had a hard time getting to Portland from Spokane in mid June.  Cool weather had clouds over the mountains and into the Columbia gorge.  Min ifr altitudes are 7-9k.  Freezing level is 7k.  Ugh.

[carusoam]

Icing and thunderstorms are the Kryptonite to flying a Super GA plane in IMC...

There are strategies and some hardware that can help with that...

Both strategic and tactical....

When new to GA... hold off flying with thunderstorms and ice for a while...

If you have plenty of IMC experience already and can commit the AMUs... find a turbo machine with a Fiki system...
 

If your icing layer is always 1-2k’ msl... the turbo may be optional....

If you are more strapped for AMUs... a non-Fiki TKS system is better than not...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[LDI]

Using Garmin Pilot or Foreflight, how modern of a system do you need to sync or work with a panel GPS unit? Do you guys just use the iPad for planning and then program in the flight plan into panel GPS or try to sync them? 

thanks

[ArtVandelay]

Using Garmin Pilot or Foreflight, how modern of a system do you need to sync or work with a panel GPS unit? Do you guys just use the iPad for planning and then program in the flight plan into panel GPS or try to sync them? 
thanks

Flightstream 210:works with GNS and GTN boxes. I always do flight plan on GP, then transfer after I’m done, even in the air if I get a complicated reroute.

[carusoam]

BT and WiFi are wonderful things...

But, you need to have some pretty modern devices to do that...

if your nav tools are 20years old... there is much twist and click to enter a flight plan... 

Best regards,

-a-

[irishpilot]

Definitely. 
I fly a Turboprop for work and it’s fine all winter.  Yeah there’s bad icing at times but the climb and descent is fast enough that you are out of it pretty quickly.  The turboprop is fine here.
Ive been contemplating finding an Eagle with tks for flying in Eastern Washington in the winter.  Usually we just have a thousand feet or so of clouds with icing from 1000-2000’agl and then it’s nice on top.  It would really increase your dispatch options.  Crossing the cascades in an NA airplane in the winter is still gonna be dicey.  The minimum ifr altitudes are pretty darn high and right where icing is common.  Even with tks, you don’t wanna plan on cruising in icing.
I actually had a hard time getting to Portland from Spokane in mid June.  Cool weather had clouds over the mountains and into the Columbia gorge.  Min ifr altitudes are 7-9k.  Freezing level is 7k.  Ugh.

Agreed. Icing and long haul CC was why I upgraded to a Bravo. Have FIKI and used it three times this winter. Never planned, always found enroute, good enough to descend/climb to avoid.

TStorms are no joke. They cause me more deviations and lost time than icing. Embedded T-Storms are a no-go.

If you have any flexibility in your work travel, a short body Mooney will serve you well. If you absolutely must travel on time, a modern GA plane still may not have enough capes.

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