FightingJioux Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Just wanting to get some opinions about a specific Mooney for sale that I’m interested in, a M20G out of Grand Forks, ND. Specifically, the RayJay turbo kit it appears to have and what that can do for performance and how it might potentially hurt the wallet maintenance wise. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20G+STATESMAN&listing_id=2380815&s-type=aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Ask for a copy of the weight and balance. It is unlikely to be close to the 1050 useful load listed. Do you think the engine has made 1320SMOH without either cylinder work or turbo? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Welcome aboard FJ. Ray jay TNs are enjoyed by people that want more power than is available to NA airplanes... at altitude. If you use it all the time... expect that the cost of going fast includes some extra wear and replacing cylinders... Most people that have one enjoy the extra MP that they generate... higher fuel use goes with that. Ray Jay still offers support for the devices they have in the field... We have the Ray Jay guy around here... So... it’s a great system if you want to pay more to go even faster..... Many MSers from C to J have a Ray Jay... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 Only problem with G's is they're the dogs of the fleet. They're still fast (they're Mooneys after all), but they're the slowest of the Mooney line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 @TheTurtle was looking for an M20G.... when he joined MS... Ended up with an M20F after that.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingJioux Posted July 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 Thanks for the replies everyone! Yeah I’m worried it might be a bit of a dog and the useful load issue wouldn’t rear its head often but it would be annoying if/when it did. There is an F I have my eyes on that’s at the top of the top end of my budget... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 It helps to start at the top of the alphabet... and work your way down... A wood wings B early version of the M20C C very refined over the years... carbureted O360. D most have been converted to Cs E Really cool... the first version of fuel injection. IO360. F Cooler than the E... for backseaters. G like the C... but best for backseaters. J the culmination of everything above... the newer the better... K improved the J by adding a TC.... several improvements in this area include MP controller and intercooler.... L a really long M20J.... With a hard to find Porsche engine... M the L With an easy to find Turbo Lycoming 540... R The most awesome version of the M20C.... more power and longer body.... S The lighter version of the R... max UL... aka Eagle TN Like the K, super refined... in the LB format... aka Acclaim U ultimate version of the C... aka Ovation Ultra V Ultimate version of the Acclaim Ultra I learned the alphabet late in life... Each one gets slightly more expensive than the next... the performance climbs equally well... When comparing... find the median of each version.... Avoid getting a J at an M20C price... (they exist) there will be so much expense to get it flying the way you want.... There are no bad Mooneys... Look for planes that are flying often... do not get one that has been sitting... (this is called the dice roll....) you might get lucky with the hangar queen... Thoughts From the top of a PP‘s mind only, not a plane sales guy... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 Where the extra excess HP becomes useful... Compare T/O distance and climb rates... If the data is available... data quality is everything.... Simply adding 10% more HP to my bird... 310hp vs. 280hp... The T/O run goes from 1200’ to 800’ under identical conditions... Using a WAAS based GPS app helps collect this kind of data... then compared to a post Y2K STC by Rocket Engineering... T/O and climb only takes a handful of minutes All that extra HP used to go faster... That is a lot of FF over a much longer period of time for a few more knots... PP thoughts only... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, carusoam said: It helps to start at the top of the alphabet... and work your way down... A wood wings B early version of the M20C C very refined over the years... carbureted O360. D most have been converted to Cs E Really cool... the first version of fuel injection. IO360. F Cooler than the E... for backseaters. G like the C... but best for backseaters. J the culmination of everything above... the newer the better... K improved the J by adding a TC.... several improvements in this area include MP controller and intercooler.... L a really long M20J.... With a hard to find Porsche engine... M the L With an easy to find Turbo Lycoming 540... R The most awesome version of the M20C.... more power and longer body.... S The lighter version of the R... max UL... aka Eagle TN Like the K, super refined... in the LB format... aka Acclaim U ultimate version of the C... aka Ovation Ultra V Ultimate version of the Acclaim Ultra I learned the alphabet late in life... Each one gets slightly more expensive than the next... the performance climbs equally well... When comparing... find the median of each version.... Avoid getting a J at an M20C price... (they exist) there will be so much expense to get it flying the way you want.... There are no bad Mooneys... Look for planes that are flying often... do not get one that has been sitting... (this is called the dice roll....) you might get lucky with the hangar queen... Thoughts From the top of a PP‘s mind only, not a plane sales guy... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- This should be pinned somewhere. Every newbie looking for a Mooney should have this posted front and center. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: I think the speed delta between the otherwise identical 180 hp and 200 hp models is massively exaggerated, personally, but useful load is really a thing. Jim Undoubtedly... but perception is also 99.99% when selling. M20G's are not easy to resale. There is a market, but it's small and takes some extra effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyKC Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 I have a G model. Doesn't really matter what airplane you get, you will always wish it had better climb and more speed. The G is a nice flying bird, even with the 180hp I never felt it was underpowered even on the hottest day at gross weight. I have flown the 200hp models and didn't really notice much in the way of climb or speed, but I am sure it was there. The nice thing about the 180hp is that its a slightly cheaper engine to overhaul. That said if I ever had to replace the engine, I would get the STC and put the 200hp in it. I wouldn't rule out a G if you found one nicely equipped with good times on the engine/airframe and with decent paint. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeph357 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 I've seen this plane before 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prior owner Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 Go fly a 180 horse piper and then fly the G- who’s the dog now? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PilotCoyote said: Go fly a 180 horse piper and then fly the G- who’s the dog now? I fly the Mighty C (go O-360, you'll be impressed!), and have no complaints. It's not at the faster end of Mooney speeds, but it ain't no Cessna! A friend has an Archer, I asked him today why he was at 4500 msl over the weekend in the picture he sent me, that I generally go back and forth to metro Atlanta at 550p and 6500--he said he didn't think his plane would reach 6500 . . . Last fall I came back from WV at 10,500msl just because I could . . . . But it was wsrm, check the DA. Edited July 8, 2020 by Hank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 I looked at a G before I purchased my E, was a little concerned about performance with 180hp but comparing the book numbers from the G to a buddy’s C which I flew in a bunch it wasn’t that big of a deal. I would be flying a G now if the seller and I could have sat down and hashed out a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 16 hours ago, Hank said: I fly the Mighty C (go O-360, you'll be impressed!), and have no complaints. It's not at the faster end of Mooney speeds, but it ain't no Cessna! A friend has an Archer, I asked him today why he was at 4500 msl over the weekend in the picture he sent me, that I generally go back and forth to metro Atlanta at 550p and 6500--he said he didn't think his plane would reach 6500 . . . Last fall I came back from WV at 10,500msl just because I could . . . . But it was wsrm, check the DA. I used to fly an M20C and agree completely. There isn't anywhere in the country I wouldn't go with that airplane. We flew out of high DA airports like FLG, WYS, and many others. My C topped out at 16,500 once on a cold winter's day to clear a line of weather (ice). Some other notable flights were KMSN to KFWS non-stop IFR and KHYI to KFGU on using only 41 out of 52 gal to do it. I like the O360 in the short body Mooney. I've just always thought the mid-body was a waste of space. But that's just me and my mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor_U Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 16 hours ago, PilotCoyote said: Go fly a 180 horse piper and then fly the G- who’s the dog now? Absolutely true! Moral of the story is there's no slow Mooney. But not really fair to Archer as it's fixed prop and gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Igor_U said: Absolutely true! Moral of the story is there's no slow Mooney. But not really fair to Archer as it's fixed prop and gear. we could be fair... MS had two of the last three M20Ds left on stiff legs And fixed pitch... -a- 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 I fly a C model and looked at a G model when I was considering which plane to buy. I like the Carbureted models because they have a significantly lower price at rebuild. Great for the CBs like me out there. While it's not applicable to the OP, I appreciate the Powerflow on mine. I think a G model with the powerflow would be great. I'd love the possibility of a TN on one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said: I like the O360 in the short body Mooney. I've just always thought the mid-body was a waste of space. But that's just me and my mission. Says the man who sold his C and bought a mid-body . . . . 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hank said: Says the man who sold his C and bought a mid-body . . . . Yep, and if I could have my 252 in a short body with a Johnson bar, I'd prefer it. I LOVE the 252, but the two things that are wasted are the extra 10 inches in the fuselage and the electric gear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 Am I the only one that likes the electric gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, larryb said: Am I the only one that likes the electric gear? I'm a big fan, too. Too many right shoulder issues that predate flight lessons. Besides, it's easy, incredibly fast and gives me lots of storage space between the seats. Used to be sectionals, Flight Guide and a drink; now it's lunch, sunglass case and some water bottles. Edited July 9, 2020 by Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Yep, and if I could have my 252 in a short body with a Johnson bar, I'd prefer it. I LOVE the 252, but the two things that are wasted are the extra 10 inches in the fuselage and the electric gear. Funny you say that. IMO the mid bodies have the best esthetic balance. I feel like my plane looks a little stubby, especially when parked on a ramp with other planes. The long bodies look a bit too stretched. Just my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, rbridges said: Funny you say that. IMO the mid bodies have the best esthetic balance. I feel like my plane looks a little stubby, especially when parked on a ramp with other planes. The long bodies look a bit too stretched. Just my opinion. I'll agree... but in my eye, the 201 windshield fixes that look. And then the short bodies look great. And I completely agree the long bodies look unnaturally stretched. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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