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Mag timing procedure with 25 deg impulse coupling?


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42 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Sound like your good to go, I will throw in the @carusoam disclaimer that I’m not an A&P :D. I would of had my A&P verify the work before re-cowling it, my A&P gets annoyed at times when I have him check my work but I don’t care....lol

Cowling is back off along with spinner.  Plane is on jacks (well, lowered back to being on gear now, but jacks in place).  My IA will inspect the mag and vacuum pump work I did as part of the annual.  I just need to pull off all the panels now and it's over to him.

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2 hours ago, RLCarter said:

I’d rather time the mags..... lol. I added up the screws in the panels just for wings once, it was like 640 or so. 

You get into a rhythm after a while.  Once you're really in the zone, you'll look up and realize you're less than 1/2 way done.  That's when it sucks.

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30 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

You get into a rhythm after a while.  Once you're really in the zone, you'll look up and realize you're less than 1/2 way done.  That's when it sucks.

I just finished pulling all the panels indicated in the 100-hour diagram.  Took almost 5 hours.

I am tired.  Much rather have been timing a mag since I can now do that from mag on bench to mag timed to engine in 30 mins.

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1 minute ago, FlyBoyM20J said:

I just finished pulling all the panels indicated in the 100-hour diagram.  Took almost 5 hours.

I am tired.  Much rather have been timing a mag since I can now do that from mag on bench to mag timed to engine in 30 mins.

Have your IA show you the ones that he really wants off, and next year only do those.   There's really nothing to see behind most of them.   The ones around control surface hardware, landing gear parts, etc., probably should come off, but past that it's kind of the IA's preference.

I have the multi-piece, factory belly and that takes most of the time and effort, and it's still really not that bad.   As others have mentioned, once you've done it a couple of times you get in the groove and it goes reasonably easy, especially if you are careful not to over torque the screws when you put them back and maybe lube them a little.   My airplane is essentially all stainless screws, plus I live in AZ, so I mostly just have to be careful to not strip the heads and not over torque them.   Makes the next year go reasonably smoothly.

 

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26 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Have your IA show you the ones that he really wants off, and next year only do those.   There's really nothing to see behind most of them.   The ones around control surface hardware, landing gear parts, etc., probably should come off, but past that it's kind of the IA's preference.

I have the multi-piece, factory belly and that takes most of the time and effort, and it's still really not that bad.   As others have mentioned, once you've done it a couple of times you get in the groove and it goes reasonably easy, especially if you are careful not to over torque the screws when you put them back and maybe lube them a little.   My airplane is essentially all stainless screws, plus I live in AZ, so I mostly just have to be careful to not strip the heads and not over torque them.   Makes the next year go reasonably smoothly.

 

I pulled off the multi-panel belly parts...lots of fun there.  I've done most of those in the past for other reasons, so I was prepared for about 150 screws.

I then did all the side panels on the tail and then the wing ones that have numbers with lines drawn to them.  I could see that these were basically the only ones that have been opened in the past, as well.  And logic kind of dictates that opening more adjacent panels wouldn't reveal much (but would clearly be useful in rigging control rods and wiring, etc.).

Here's the diagram I used.  About to meet my IA and I'll find out if this is what he wanted to see.  Fingers crossed.

Cliff

image.thumb.png.84fbd38b7a521d7634c38b7f4bce5720.png

 

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My IA agreed with my choice of wing inspection panels to open and said it was wise not to open more given this plane has fuel bladders in the main tank area and used to have extended range tanks farther out the wings.  So far so good on the annual.  We'll finish tomorrow. 

And then I get to put all the panels back on.  Fun times.

 

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5 hours ago, FlyBoyM20J said:

I just finished pulling all the panels indicated in the 100-hour diagram.  Took almost 5 hours.

I am tired.  Much rather have been timing a mag since I can now do that from mag on bench to mag timed to engine in 30 mins.

I tried to warn you...... 5 yrs sounds about right

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Don't skimp,   put in new screws in all those panels.   It'll pay big dividends for the next 3 years

If you want to do your A&P by experience you need to contact your local FSDO and a Mx Inspector and get his requirements for logging the time spent working on airplanes.  We have a local guy here who did it that way and the FSDO showed him how they wanted the experience logged. They may also check in once and a while to see how its going.

There is an hour requirement and they need to know you are doing it. 

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7 hours ago, cliffy said:

Don't skimp,   put in new screws in all those panels.   It'll pay big dividends for the next 3 years

If you want to do your A&P by experience you need to contact your local FSDO and a Mx Inspector and get his requirements for logging the time spent working on airplanes.  We have a local guy here who did it that way and the FSDO showed him how they wanted the experience logged. They may also check in once and a while to see how its going.

There is an hour requirement and they need to know you are doing it. 

Does the FAA have a log book for A&P’s to track their completed tasks?  Transport Canada has us use one that is broken down by ATA codes.

Clarence

463B90F5-2BCD-4994-A321-B328017E9ABA.jpeg

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7 hours ago, cliffy said:

Don't skimp,   put in new screws in all those panels.   It'll pay big dividends for the next 3 years

If you want to do your A&P by experience you need to contact your local FSDO and a Mx Inspector and get his requirements for logging the time spent working on airplanes.  We have a local guy here who did it that way and the FSDO showed him how they wanted the experience logged. They may also check in once and a while to see how its going.

There is an hour requirement and they need to know you are doing it. 

I have a few pounds of SS 8-32 and 10-32 and various sheet metal screws that I bought from Spruce when I first took off belly panels tracking down an antenna problem.  That was 2 years ago just after I had bought this lovely oily messy plane.  I replaced all the screws on the main belly panels then.  I'm happy about that.

I don't know if I have enough left to replace all the hardware this time but I can swap out the troublesome screws, I think.  I'll order more SS from Spruce either way.

I can talk to the FSDO sometime soon about what I have in mind.  I've met the ASE, at any rate, and I get along with him OK.

Nice name.

Cliff

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Our local guy had to keep a personal written log of hours and duties to show the required work. 

For those not familiar here are the basic requirements-

  1. You must be
    • at least 18 years old;
    • able to read, write, speak, and understand English.
  2. You must get 18 months of practical experience with either power plants or airframes, or 30 months of practical experience working on both at the same time. As an alternative to this experience requirement, you can graduate from an FAA-Approved Aviation Maintenance Technician School.
  3. You must pass three types of tests;
    • a written examination
    • an oral test
    • a practical test
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43 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Our local guy had to keep a personal written log of hours and duties to show the required work. 

For those not familiar here are the basic requirements-

  1. You must be
    • at least 18 years old;
    • able to read, write, speak, and understand English.
  2. You must get 18 months of practical experience with either power plants or airframes, or 30 months of practical experience working on both at the same time. As an alternative to this experience requirement, you can graduate from an FAA-Approved Aviation Maintenance Technician School.
  3. You must pass three types of tests;
    • a written examination
    • an oral test
    • a practical test

Honestly,  unless you get practical experience in a structured environment (like the military or a maintenance facility), getting an A&P based on experience will be a very very long uphill battle

Better off go through an approved AMT school ....

 

 

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25 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Isn't it actually 9 test total? Written, Oral and Practical for the General, Airframe and Power Plant

Kinda, but not really.

-3 written tests, General, Airframe, Powerplant

-1 oral that will encompass all 3 areas 

-1 practical that will encompass all 3 areas

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4 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Kinda, but not really.

-3 written tests, General, Airframe, Powerplant

-1 oral that will encompass all 3 areas 

-1 practical that will encompass all 3 areas

actually it is in between

- 3 written tests (usually taken separately) 

- 1 oral with General + either A or P, then another oral that is the P or A 

- 1 practical for A and 1 practical for P

(you can try to combine the practicals but the DME will charge separate fees and will likely require separate  time windows) 

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8 minutes ago, OR75 said:

 

(you can try to combine the practicals but the DME will charge separate fees and will likely require separate  time windows) 

No separate time window for the Oral or Practical when I did mine more than 20 years ago, but of course he did charge extra for doing both the A and the P.

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3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

No separate time window for the Oral or Practical when I did mine more than 20 years ago, but of course he did charge extra for doing both the A and the P.

We have an Aviation School locally,  the Oral & Practical for Gen, A&P is all done at once..... not sure if that’s a school thing or not

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3 hours ago, OR75 said:

actually it is in between

- 3 written tests (usually taken separately) 

- 1 oral with General + either A or P, then another oral that is the P or A 

- 1 practical for A and 1 practical for P

(you can try to combine the practicals but the DME will charge separate fees and will likely require separate  time windows) 

The oral questions are separated into categories, you'll just do the general oral with whichever rating you're trying to get, A or P or both.   You can't get either without passing the general exams.

So, by my count, there are three orals, three writtens, and three practicals.    There are general practical tasks as well; things like crimping electrical connectors, flaring tube fittings, doing a weight-and-balance calculation, or cleaning and corrosion treatment of metals, etc., etc.  I think safety wiring is covered in generals as well, as well as hardware, alloys, physics, etc.  The ones I remember doing were cleaning surface corrosion off of a janky piece of sheetmetal from an old Bonanza, and repairing electrical terminals and tying the bundle with wax lacing.   I see now they're letting people just tie the bundle with zip ties.   I feel cheated.  ;)

So nine exams by my count.

There are very good study guides out there, though, but it's a lot of work to go through everything and be prepared. 

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This is a great discussion.  I've looked into the tests before and talked to some recent A&P license holders.  I was friends with a young mechanic while he was taking his exams and I got a sense of the material involved (he's moved away recently and is too busy to hang out anyway so no longer a resource for me).  I think I can handle the written and oral and practical exams with some serious study and practice.

My sticking point is the 30 months of experience.  I probably could find a way to cobble that time together job by job over the next 10 years or something but it seems unlikely.

I guess I need to plan for going to a tech school at some point.  My day job presently gets in the way of such things. 

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38 minutes ago, FlyBoyM20J said:

This is a great discussion.  I've looked into the tests before and talked to some recent A&P license holders.  I was friends with a young mechanic while he was taking his exams and I got a sense of the material involved (he's moved away recently and is too busy to hang out anyway so no longer a resource for me).  I think I can handle the written and oral and practical exams with some serious study and practice.

My sticking point is the 30 months of experience.  I probably could find a way to cobble that time together job by job over the next 10 years or something but it seems unlikely.

I guess I need to plan for going to a tech school at some point.  My day job presently gets in the way of such things. 

Evening classes / part time would take 3 to 4 years

full time : you can pull it in 2 years 

there is a minimum numbers of hours and you are actually required to clock in and out of classes

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Strange differences in the 2 systems.  No oral exams or practical exam issued by Transport Canada, they have eliminated influence and personalities from the process.  If you go to school for 2 years and pass with high enough marks you only need to write the air regulations exam at the end of your 30 month apprenticeship.  
 
You submit your task log as proof of your experience for the licence you are seeking, “M1”covers piston and turbo prop, “M2” turbo jet, “E“ covers avionics, “S“covers structures.

Clarence

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16 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Strange differences in the 2 systems.  No oral exams or practical exam issued by Transport Canada, they have eliminated influence and personalities from the process.  If you go to school for 2 years and pass with high enough marks you only need to write the air regulations exam at the end of your 30 month apprenticeship.  
 
You submit your task log as proof of your experience for the licence you are seeking, “M1”covers piston and turbo prop, “M2” turbo jet, “E“ covers avionics, “S“covers structures.

Clarence

That's way different from here.    Here the A&P is universal (other than separation into Airframe and Powerplant ratings), and even covers helicopters, airliners, jets, recip, radial, turbine, etc., etc.   There is apparently talk to change that, but I kinda hope they don't.

 

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