N2652W will have a new home!

[ZuluZulu]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The countdown is to give you time to push the button and thus tell it to keep running on battery power. If you lost electrical power in flight, you want it to keep running on battery. But when you shut down at the hangar after a flight, you want it to shut off. Therefore anytime it looses power, it gives a 5 second countdown and if no input, it turns off. 

Holding the button to force it off is akin to a hard shutdown on your phone or computer.

I have two, so I’m not unfamiliar. I asked because I was never told to avoid ever manually shutting it down OR ELSE like I’m hearing here. Did I miss this from the manual? Mechanic has my books for the annual so I can’t go check. 

[hammdo]

I'm going by what my Garmin shop suggests - I'm guessing it's what was recommended for normal shutdown. 

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, hammdo said:

I'm going by what my Garmin shop suggests - I'm guessing it's what was recommended for normal shutdown. 

I had an issue for a while where they'd count down to 3 and wake themselves back up, so I got in the habit of shutting them down manually.  That's been fixed where they do automatically power down now, but I didn't think it was hurting anything to shut them down myself.

[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

I had an issue for a while where they'd count down to 3 and wake themselves back up, so I got in the habit of shutting them down manually.  That's been fixed where they do automatically power down now, but I didn't think it was hurting anything to shut them down myself.

I don't think it hurts the unit to "force shutdown". It's just under normal circumstances, a needless step.

[hammdo]

Figured I'd give an update.  Did an oil change (after 56.7 hrs) and found 3 small slivers and some flecks in the filter - all non magnetic. Based on Lycoming SI, keep going with normal oil changes and monitor things. Oil sample sent to Blackstone. Since David did install the SureFly and it 'could' be from that, I'm going to keep track. The SI notes it could be piston pin caps and to just monitor the oil. Now, she did sit a while so some of that could be part of the restart after the hiatus.  New oil is Phillips Victory and Cam Guard in the proper mix. 

I'll post the Blackstone report with pics once I get the results. 

Took it out today and she flew great! It just loves to fly... Really performs wonderfully.

I'll probably start planning for a top OH if I see metal in the next oil change but so far, according to Lycoming, it's well within tolerance and no need to do anything yet. Currently have 3 hrs on her since the oil change and hardly move the oil level ;o) 

Hard to believe but 60 hrs on her since David did the annual in November! 

I will probably hit 100 hrs before annual so that will be interesting on what to do there. 

Still working towards next G5, electric step, vacuum system removal! 
 

edit: opps, NON Magnetic ;o)

-Don 

[carusoam]

My O360 liked to drop one or two flakes like that at each annual...

They are big...

yet, you only get one or two...

So... it’s not every start-up...

I have no idea how big flakes like that get generated...

My M20C was with me for a decade, and 1khrs... never changed...

Best regards,

-a-

[hammdo]

SI from lycoming...

https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1492d

Titled about piston pin plug but more about metal in oil/filter...

-Don

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, hammdo said:

SI from lycoming...

https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1492d

Titled about piston pin plug but more about metal in oil/filter...

-Don

We have seen a wrist pin come loose around here...  when it moves... there are a lot of flakes generated as it cut a new flake with each motion of the piston...

Best regards,

-a-

[hammdo]

Blackstone report came in. Trends look great!

-Don

[hammdo]

Took her out today for a nice cross-country flight to Hugo (Stan Stamper) Muni.  Wanted to stretch her legs a bit and get used to doing climbs to altitude, leaning, etc. that goes with it.  For the most part, the flight was great except one thing:

The prop would not reduce rpm when I pull the control back -- and I had it pretty close to all the way back.

I notice the rpm was staying @ 2700 so I reduced manifold pressure to 16 inches -- that kept it under 2700 rpm. This happen just as I reached 5500' and was about 1/2 way to Hugo.

Landing with reduced power was fine and I did a go-around @ Stamper due to a sudden 20 knot gust just as I landed. Second landing was spot on.  I did a refuel, did a runup -- the first pull on the prop was real slow, second and third showed changes in rpm, mp, and oil pressure.

Took off again, climbing out and once I started to settle into cruise -- did it again.  Pulled power back down to 16" and got here back to North Texas.

Now, it was 5.6 hours since I change the oil to Phillips Victory 20w50 with proper CamGuard before this trip so, the oil should have cycled by now.

Did ask David about it and he said it happened once to him about 5 years ago.

When I started landing and pushed the prop control in, you could hear and feel a definite change in the prop and she slowed down as I expected.

So, hoping @Cody Stallings or @M20Doc could give me some suggestions.

600 hrs since b hub prop installed and gov overhauled.  I'll need to dig into the logs to see what gov I have.

Outside of that, she flew really well and everything else worked!  15 gallons in 2.2 hrs so not too bad under the circumstances.

BTW its 85° here and my hottest CHT on climb out was 390° - not bad!

edit: prop resealed in 2009.

-Don

[carusoam]

There are a couple of reports of a similar situation... around here...

Where the oil pressure that is needed to push the prop blades open... gets drained back to the sump for some reason...

Two reasons this has happened...

There is a simple seal blocking the oil pressure opposite of the prop...  it is a fifty cent piece of aluminum... if it gets loose... the oil escapes, and the prop lands on the flat stops...

The other report was a really unique situation where there was a case hole that had a set screw in the hole to keep oil from escaping....  the MSer didn’t get the set screw...

All leaks are internal to the engine... so there isn’t a mess to follow...

 

So... be thinking about...  how the oil gets pressurized...  and where that oil pressure is going.... or why the governor is misbehaving...

How many hours are on the gov?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[hammdo]

600 hrs on the gov, 600 on prop, 200 since prop reseal.

I read about the aluminum washer, and of course Kevin’s case issues with DIVCO.  There is a prop shop at Meachum that Maxwell sends their prop work too (Byam). May give them a shout tomorrow or Monday...

no issue with full power on take-off...

oil pressure has been 65 psi plus, 6 qts oil minimum @ all times ...

-Don

[carusoam]

The gov has its own gear pump in it...  generating oilP that we can’t see...

There is probably a method of putting a gauge in the line...

My O360 lost the aluminum disc...   that was the day I also found out my prop stops weren’t set very well...

Maintaining rpm using the throttle, left very little power available... 

Looking into the govenor on mine... so many things were worn related to the fly weights... we assumed that was going to be the issue...  the valve stays open or sticks and dumps all of the OilP back into the sump...

IiRC...  we R&R’d the gov... then pressure tested the prop to see it move... then pulled the prop to see what was hiding in the shaft...

Wish I had MS back in the day... 

Hope any of this helps...

Thought process of a PP, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Cody Stallings]

Well having a front row seat to two prop Governor(67 F model several yrs ago, an agin In Rocket 2 months ago) failures this story sounds very familiar to my first one.

My F Model had a Hartzell H-1 Gov installed, it was also known as the Hamilton Standard H-1 an was installed on every P&W R-985 an R-1340(Wasp Junior) in its former life before multiple O/H a being Retagged with a new Name.

With the O/H procedure of just about anything aluminum in aviation is the Etching process. The part(Governor Main body) is dipped in a Nitric Acid solution to remove a layer of material to get to fresh metal an it also aids in the NDT process to follow. This process over time opens up clearance where internal oil pressure is very hard to maintain, so the gov will start to Internationally bypass oil. Especially with multi viscosity oils.
 

In a nutshell it sounds like your Governor is bypassing.

When I first started flying my former F Model it actually belonged to my employer at the time an it was used for AOG opts away from the Repairstation mainly, that being said it was his plane so we done things his way. He had a love affair with Aeroshell 15w-50 oil so that what we ran in it.

Over a months time I noticed the blue knob had to come back further an further to keep my normal cruise RPM of 2450. This aircraft at the time flew 300+ hrs a yr so we knew each other very well.

Bring this issue up to the Mechanic he said sounds like the Governor was bypassing so let’s fatten the oil up an see if that helps.

Next oil change we filled her up with 100W+ an the problem went away till that summer.

The problem had been identified an the owner would not put a Governor on it cause it wasn’t having issues anymore.

Well that summer on a trip from DTO->7M2 she finally had to let loose. It wasn’t a fast failure, but over a 2.5hr flight every 15-20min it would rise 50-70 rpm.

By the time I made it to the pattern at 7M2 the lowest RPM I could command was 2650 because it was bypassing oil internally.

After a safe landing an bench testing of the Governor, it was Revealed it was only making 55psi where it should be in the 270-290 psi range.

My Advice to you if you do in fact have a H-1 is to replace it with a PCU5000 or McCauley 290D. Both will require different cable mounting brackets but you will be glad you did.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Cody Stallings
Fat fingers

[hammdo]

Thanks Cody, wish I could bring her out to you. I’ll see what gov I have and plan on replacing it. It’s what I thought it would be. There goes my G5 money ;o)...

Love MooneySpace though...

-Don

[Cody Stallings]

9 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Thanks Cody, wish I could bring her out to you. I’ll see what gov I have and plan on replacing it. It’s what I thought it would be. There goes my G5 money ;o)...

Love MooneySpace though...

-Don

No No, Governors aren’t that bad in price for a CS version. $1500-1700ish

Just had to get one For my plane that is CS Feathering. I almost had a Stroke when my price was almost $4K

Byam can probably steer you in the right direction, I don’t know anyone there anymore after Carl’s passing or I would make a call for ya.

Baileys Propeller Parts in New Albany Indiana is definitely worth a call to. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Cody Stallings

[hammdo]

Much appreciated. Will they know what bracket setup I need?

-Don

[Cody Stallings]

Just now, hammdo said:

Much appreciated. Will they know what bracket setup I need?

-Don

Yes.

 The PCU will have its own bracket that is purchased separately.

The 290D can utilize the Hartzell Governor bracket but you have to drill a couple new holes in it to attach to the Governor’s top Cap. Or you could spring for the McCauley bracket.

Both Govs are by far superior to the old H-1.

if you have a digital tach you will see what I mean. They lock into the RPM an there is very little variation if any.

[carusoam]

Cody,

Did I ever mention it is great having you here?

Thanks for supplying all the tech detail you do...

Best regards,

-a-

[Cody Stallings]

4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Cody,

Did I ever mention it is great having you here?

Thanks for supplying all the tech detail you do...

Best regards,

-a-

Lol..... Maybe a couple time in the past..:)

[hammdo]

I’m very thankful ;o)

-Don

[hammdo]

Called Byam’s and talked to Brian there (he does the prop Governors). Said the same thing as Cody - probably defective governor and to go with the PCU5000 and bracket. He’s going to get back with me on Monday with the details to order. They don’t install anymore so he recommended 2 AP’s in the Denison area to do the install so, I’m going to reach out to them. Appreciate everyone’s help!

-Don

[hammdo]

Decided to fly her in the pattern today. I noted the prop is real slow responding the first time I do a prop cycle, 2nd and 3rd are more responsive but still a bit slow. I do get 2700 RPM on take off and climb out. Following Don Kayes recommendations on pattern work, she never goes over 2500 RPM so I’ve been fine there. Waiting for Byam’s to get back on the timeframe and hopefully this can be all done in one day. Right mag is due for the 500 hrs so gonna do that at the same time. Gonna ck the air pump but would really like to wait since when I do the G5, all the vac stuff goes...

88° day today and she did fine — LOTS of training traffic today ;o)

-Don

[hammdo]

PCU with bracket and right mag ordered! Should have both in a week. Talked to the AP recommended by Byams,should be set. 

Flew her yesterday in the pattern, she loves to fly! Once these items are set, I want to really stretch here legs and do a longer x-country. Have almost over 40 hrs on her since I got her - now have 70 hrs in a Mooney! At this rate I may have 100 hrs on her before annual is due...

 

With all of this work being done, the things that were not done during engine IRAN are cylinders and carb - every thing else is new or overhauled! 

-Don 

[carusoam]

Depending on how well she runs...

There are some options to consider with the carb at OH time...

Some got the wrong jets somewhere along the way... floats sink... accelerator pumps need some love...

It really helps to have FF info to make some decisions...

PP thoughts only, looking forwards... not a mechanic...

 

Best regards,

-a-