1979 M20K 231

[Aspen2013]

Do some models have a white position light on the tail vs. a strobe?

 

If yes then does it have a power supply box?

If no, then the only way I have a position light is if someone  had a bad power supply and did not want to spend the $6-700.00 to replace it and just ran straight voltage to a white position light. The box may be in the aircraft and the wires cut and bypassed or the box removed and wires spliced. 

 

or, can a position light be inserted in the socket instead of a strobe bulb and the power supply just powers it as a steady voltage??

 

[Ragsf15e]

13 hours ago, Aspen2013 said:

Do some models have a white position light on the tail vs. a strobe?

 

If yes then does it have a power supply box?

If no, then the only way I have a position light is if someone  had a bad power supply and did not want to spend the $6-700.00 to replace it and just ran straight voltage to a white position light. The box may be in the aircraft and the wires cut and bypassed or the box removed and wires spliced. 

 

or, can a position light be inserted in the socket instead of a strobe bulb and the power supply just powers it as a steady voltage??

 

Mine has aftermarket LEDs... the light on the tail is steady white.  The wingtips are combo strobes and position.

I have no idea where the control boxes are or how they’re wired.  PFM as far as I know, but I do know they work and they’re legal.

So not much help to you, but it can be legal like that...

[Niko182]

I have both. My strobe and Nav lights consists of the Whelen 500 and 650 lights. the tail light has wires for both a stobe and a nav light. I connected them both.

[ArtVandelay]

My 78J only had the navigation light, I had added another wire and upgraded to LED combo light, if you want it synced with other strobes, you need to run 2 additional wires.

[Aspen2013]

Thank you all. I was wondering because a mechanic said the light didn't work. He said he discovered the power supply was bad. I checked it at home and it worked fine. I think they turned on the strobe lights and it didn't come on. It is powered by the NAV lights. I don't see a power supply unit so I think he is billing for phantom work or he was on the wrong plane!

[carusoam]

Traditional strobe lights use a very high voltage system...

This power supply is usually mounted within a few feet of the light itself...

Sounds like you are unsure of what you have... want or need...

Often, strobes are colocated with the nav lights... and powered separately...

Strobes are usually turned off at various times... on the ground and in clouds... while the nav lights are still on.

 

So... sounds like your tail strobe is dead, but the tail light is alive...

if you want your tail strobe to be alive... ask your mechanic to show you its power supply...
 

Some strobe systems... depending on your airplane’s year of construction... may require the tail strobe....

What were you asking for?
Do I need a strobe back there?

How do I get the strobe back on?

Post a pic of what you have... while the light isn’t on...

Remember to be nice to the mechanics... the answer you seek may be in their hands... 

Best regards,

-a-

[KB4]

On pilot side, At the leading edge of the horizontal stab look down and to the left on fuse, you will see the panel that has at least 4 extra holes, that's the one with the power supply attached to back side.  

Check Ebay, Whelen power supplies are listed often and should be less than 100$

If your mechanic is talking 500-600 nonsense to fix, then remove the power supply and hook up an LED

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/orion500series.php

[Aspen2013]

For Anthony,

 

I am trying to figure out why I don't have a power supply for my tail light and the mechanic says the strobe is not working. It's because I have a NAV light controlled by a NAV LIGHT switch. I am asking if Mooney in 1979 made these with nav lights or strobes? Maybe some how this was converted to NAV light??? The only combo units I ever heard of are the LED type and still controlled by one switch usually NAV LIGHT switch and you do something like turn it on once for NAV light and off and on twice for strobe or run a separate wire for strobe. Prior to LED I never heard of a combo bulb. Did Mooney ever use a combo bulb?  Before inquiring with mechanic I am making sure I understand my light setup. I think it may just be a mistake that he thinks it usually is a strobe light and it must not be working. They may never have looked at it from the rear when they had a mechanic flip the switch and another guy out front saying yeah all the position lights work.

He never brought up a point about combo light. He just said during his inspection that the tail strobe was not working and the bulb checked good. He was researching to obtain a power supply. I have no idea where he is getting the part number from? Maybe a catalog? Maybe never got in the tail section yet. Wanted to check availability on the unit before tearing apart??

I got home flipped on NAV LIGHT and it worked fine.

 

Thanks

[kortopates]

I would assume you have the white nav light at the rear of the each wing tip with the enclosed Nav/strobe/Recognition lights in the wing tip. With that setup, you don't need a rear white tail light. But you would need a tail strobe with the lights in the enclosed wing tips.

I don't believe Mooney ever used a combination light in the tail. Mooney's without the enclosed wingtip lights had a white tail light.

A proper installation of the dual tail lights requires running an extra wire back to the tail for new light - which was the nav light for my 252.  Its optional whether you want to run an extra wire or re-use an unused wire back to the tail and wing tips to sync the strobes between all three strobes.

[carusoam]

Paul,  great explanation...

In 94... my O has two rear facing white lights... one on each wing tip...

The tail light bulb is a strobe light... because it looks like a strobe flash / tube... I would have to check if it is a nav light as well...  I believe it’s not, because I have the wing tip rear facing white light units...
 

For Aspen...

Be on the look out for rear facing white nav bulbs... constant on, with the nav switch...

Look for the four bolts that KB4 described... this would be a solid hint that there used to be a power supply there...

Also check your logs for records of tail light changes....
 

If the only rear facing white bulb is on the tail... 

Where are your strobes..?

The latest do everything devices... nav, strobe, and ADSB-out... have various ways to connect the different aspects of the unit....

Some people take the low cost route... and the whole thing comes on with the nav lights switch...

It may take extra wire, extra switches, and extra time to connect things in the most optimum way... with independent nav and strobe control... And yet another wire if you want everything to flash in sync...

It is best to be able to turn the strobes off, and leave the nav lights on...

Also know that strobe rules changed a few times... what is required depends on the year your plane was built...

This change results in plenty of confusion for everyone...

To resolve this confusion... Whelen has a chart on their website and product catalogs... defining how many strobes and where they need to be...

If you don’t have a flash tube, and can’t find the power supply... it is probable that there wasn’t a strobe light in the tail...

Compare your plane’s year with the Whelen chart...

Sorry, this probably didn't get much clearer... but I think I covered what has happened Or didn’t happen with your plane....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Warren]

My 231 - 1985 model - If  I recall correctly, there is a white nav light and a strobe bulb.  In the parts manual it is called out as a nav/strobe assembly.  I will be at the airport tomorrow and verify if it has a white and strobe light.  I know there is a strobe power supply mounted to a side access panel at the rear of the fuselage as mentioned above.

According to the parts manual, the aft wingtip lights started with the 252 series.  That would imply you do not have this and would require a rear white nav light.  My 231 does not have rear wingtip lights.

[Aspen2013]

Yes that is correct that I DO NOT have aft white wingtip lights. 
I believe the requirement is that if you have one strobe it is usually on top of the tail. If you have them in the wing tips then you have to have two working strobes. So I have the enclosed strobe and position lights in each leading edge wingtips. So a steady white tail light is all legal and ok. I just didn’t see any power supply so didn’t understand mechanic. They way it operates now is completely legal and I don’t believe any corrective action is necessary.  Any other thoughts?

 

[ArtVandelay]

If you do any amount of night flying, I would upgrade to LEDs, much brighter than the legal (minimum) requirement.


Tom

[Aspen2013]

I did upgrade the taxi and landing. You are right I would never try to fix or replace any of this original equipment. LED way to go. Probably cheaper than trying to keep old stuff going. 

[Warren]

Here is a picture of the dual light. Strobe light around perimeter and Nav light in the center. 
Second picture is the strobe power supply mounted to the access panel in the fuselage. 
if yours had a strobe power supply and the strobe lights there should at least be screw holes and evidence of removal. 
 

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, Warren said:

Here is a picture of the dual light. Strobe light around perimeter and Nav light in the center. 
Second picture is the strobe power supply mounted to the access panel in the fuselage. 
if yours had a strobe power supply and the strobe lights there should at least be screw holes and evidence of removal. 
 

That setup is a perfect match for the Whelen Orion 500 LED rear tail light/strobe for the 231's that don't have the wingtip rear white position lights. Plus won't have to pull any new wires except for possibly an optional sync wire.

With the wing strobes enclosed in the wingtips, it's impossible to get the required 360 coverage without the 3rd strobe on the tail.

[Aspen2013]

That is very helpful. Thank you for the pictures. I will investigate this further and see what I have since I never realized this setup existed.

[kortopates]

26 minutes ago, Aspen2013 said:

That is very helpful. Thank you for the pictures. I will investigate this further and see what I have since I never realized this setup existed.

Your IPC will also tell you what you (should) have.

Just out of curiosity, the title of the thread is "1979 M20K 231", but under your information besides location you list a M20TN? (I was initially confused by what model you're referring too.)

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, Aspen2013 said:

That is very helpful. Thank you for the pictures. I will investigate this further and see what I have since I never realized this setup existed.

If you have that combo tail strobe/position light, be aware that some later models use a circular 9-pin CPC connector fixed to the assembly (IIRC it's the same as on the Bonanza).  I found out the strobe bulb is not replaceable, and you have to replace the entire assembly which is $700 BY ITSELF.  That might be the cost your shop is telling you about.

AFAIK, they can modify your plane to use the 4-pin Molex strobe assembly which is only $250.  Or, as others have pointed out, you can get the LED for $500 and have them modify it that way.  

 

[jaylw314]

This damn thing

[carusoam]

Great details Warren!

Aspen,
Our local MS LED/Whelen purveyor is @OSUAV8TER....

He often supplies great ideas for what would replace the old light/strobe combo...

If you decide on going that way...

More strobes the better at night... so many shadows are possible...

Best regards,

-a-

[Aspen2013]

Paul,

I knew someone would probably catch that and scratch their head. I am the lucky owner of two Mooney's. I should say now that I "was" the owner. Just closed on the sale of the 1979 M20K. I am helping out the new owner. So now I am back down to owning ONE, which is the 2008 M20TN Acclaim Type S. 

 

Jaylw314, 

Thanks for those pictures - that just looks expensive! These days it just doesn't make sense to do anything except LED. Brighter, less current draw, cooler and last longer.

 

Once we get some pictures of the bulb and find out what we have going on here and checking the compartment holding the power supply we will get back to everyone.

[OSUAV8TER]

@Aspen2013 I am a Whelen Aerospace Technologies (WAT) authorized dealer. If you have an A500 tail light, it will have a white incandescent position light and an embedded strobe light with a power pack somewhere near that light. If that power pack is bad, they can run around $800 new. You can buy used ones on eBay for $100-$200 or so but buyer beware. Going to an LED light, I have the Orion 500 LED light for $399.99.

gallagheraviationllc@gmail.com <--- Email address

http://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/whelen-aircraft-lighting.html <--- My website with WAT LED products

[carusoam]

Aspen,

Thanks for straightening that out...

I wasn’t looking forward to explaining that the nice K you have isn’t a TN...   

The TN you have is awesome!  
 

Oddly enough... the TN doesn’t share the same CR, as the NA IO550... so it’s mildly TC’d!   

See OSU above regarding going LED... Staying with the old flash tubes has gone by the wayside... Elvis has left the building...

Thanks to OSU for the tech description of the tail light bulb...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Aspen2013]

CR kinda goes out the window when you can maintain over 30” all the way up. 
here is a nice typical 16,000 msl flight. 
29MAP 2500 RPM.