Any dreamers out there?

[drapo]

This PFM is for sale in the Montréal area. I'm not familiar with the individual and haven't contacted him and I don't know if it can be licensed/exported to the USA, but here is the link:

https://www.lespac.com/pierrefonds/vehicules-aeriens/avion-mooney-m20l-pfm-porsche-mooney-de-1988_115336001D0.jsa?searchCriteria=L3NlYXJjaC9yZXN1bHRzLmpzYT9sPTEmaT0xJmRoPTAmaz0yJmU9NDUuNTI1MDAmZj0tNzMuNTU4MzMmaD0xJmc9MTc1NjcmYj0yOTcmdz1BSVJDUkFGVF9wcm9kdWN0VHlwZSZqPTE&navigationInfo=YT0xMCZiPTEzMCZjPTExNTQ0MzY0MVMxMTE5NDQ2MTdTMTE1MzQ4MDE2UzExNTMzNjAwMVMxMTUyNTk2MzJTMTE1MzAzNjE2UzExNTIyNjIxN1MxMTUyNTI2MzZTMTA5MjA4ODQ0UzExNTE5MTgwNyZkPTA&requester=SCH

It's a very sharp looking specimen

[carusoam]

Drapo,

Do you suppose that is Canadian dollars in the 100amu price?

I think the new owner will need to become familiar with owner supplied parts for the next engine OH...
 

Really nice looking original Long Body, for the distinguished owner...

A great plane for the Porsche driven Mooniacs... 

Do your studying prior to pushing the buy button.

Best regards,

-a-

[drapo]

$100,000USD 

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Drapo,

Do you suppose that is Canadian dollars in the 100amu price?

I think the new owner will need to become familiar with owner supplied parts for the next engine OH...
 

Really nice looking original Long Body, for the distinguished owner...

A great plane for the Porsche driven Mooniacs... 

Do your studying prior to pushing the buy button.

Best regards,

-a-

Nope it looks like USD.

 

[carusoam]

Lance,

My eyes were so glazed over by the time I read the last line....

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

On 6/11/2020 at 10:27 PM, carusoam said:

Lance,

My eyes were so glazed over by the time I read the last line....

-a-

My eyes have been glazed over since birth.

[GeeBee]

400 smoh. Wonder when that occurred? Maybe not as hard to O/H as one would think? Don't know the answer to that.

 

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, GeeBee said:

400 smoh. Wonder when that occurred? Maybe not as hard to O/H as one would think? Don't know the answer to that.

 

Parts availability issue...

Sure, the parts are available... the certificated paperwork for said parts adds to the challenges...

Then, while you are at it... wouldn’t a few extra HPs make more sense....

Hence the birth of the 350hp Liquid Rocket engine in the M20L...

 

Hmmm... 

The only real shortcoming of the higher power M20L, was the legs that it is standing on... it may be possible to borrow some new legs from a recycled O that is in Europe....   

 

PP speculation on my part, based on old fuzzy memories at best...
 

There are quite a few M20Ls around MS...

Best regards,

-a-

[bfreelove]

I have an M20L that was converted from the Porsche engine to the IO-550.  The original of owner of mine bought it new and put about 3000 hrs on it with the Porsche engine.  The airplane came with the most complete paperwork I've ever seen (including receipts from every time it was detailed etc.).  There are several letters in the files from him to Mooney asking why they weren't promoting the airplane more and stopped making them.  He seemed to really like it with the Porsche engine and sold it shortly after it was converted. 

There was some teething issues with the Porsche engine that led to some ADs.  That being said I think most owners really liked that setup and didn't have as much issues as is rumored. The design was pretty impressive when you consider it was a certified all electric airplane (dual electronic ignition, all electric gyros) in 1988!  My opinion is that the only main issue was the hp was a little low for the weight of the airframe, and that Porsche insisted on keeping the engine cooling fan and the cowling design is really inefficient as a result.  If you match up fuel burns from the Porsche engine against the IO-550 it's often 5-10 knots faster with the TCM engine for the same fuel burn.  My thinking is this is just down to the cooling efficiency since everything else is pretty much unchanged.  

There's a few differences in the L airframes vs. the rest of the long bodies, smaller rear windows, stall strips in a different spot, smaller fuel tanks and some other oddities.  But the main difference is the landing gear.  It's basically the same gear as the J and K models from the mid 80s.  This is what limits it to the 2900 lb gross weight, which means the useful load is really bad. The gear is the same gear that has been approved to 3200 lbs for the Rocket, but the STC holder went under before they got the gross weight increased for the converted Ls. There is actually one L (which was the Mod Works test bed) which has the increase, but the rest of us are left with the lower gross weight.  

For me it's just fine,  I never fly with more than one other person and not much bags.  If I'm by myself I can nearly fill it up (it has Monroy long range tanks so 89 gals total) and that fits my usual trips perfectly.  I just really like the airframe engine combination, and the acquisition cost was well below a comparable Ovation.  It probably doesn't have much resale, but I'm doing a lot of work on it and plan some modifications as well (including a gross weight, or at least takeoff weight increase).  I don't feel as bad changing a bunch of stuff on the L since it's such an oddball.  It's an amazing airplane and I feel lucky to have found it and plan to keep it as my forever airplane.  

 

[carusoam]

Bfree,

There is an O being parted out in Europe... posted around here recently...

See if there are any updates that might be interesting for you...

The leg updates may be the only thing needed to get to the other Long Body MGTW...

Sounds like some research may be required...   to get an awesome amount of strength in the legs....
 

Thanks for filling in the M20L details...

There are no Bad Mooneys...

Best regards,

-a-

[bfreelove]

Thanks for the info about the O being parted out!  I have been keeping an eye out for some used heavier duty gear.  What's interesting is that I think the increased strength of the newer gear is mostly to put the dual brake pucks on and take a larger braking load, not any landing loads.  When you line up the parts numbers, they're nearly identical except for a few key parts.  From comparing them by eye, the tubing looks the same with just the welds being a little different and the cross tie plate being removed.  The nose gear on the L is exactly the same as the Ovation already.  Also interesting is that I think the K and J models already had the dual puck gear (with the fully enclosed gear doors) in 1988.  My assumption is the L never got it because they were trying to keep the weight down? Not sure.  

The upside is the L airframe is nice and light.  Mine had a lot of avionics and a heavy interior, but was still much lighter than most Ovations.  Sort of on par with an M20S.  I've gotten about 70 lbs out of it so far (including adding the 19 lbs of ballast which it really needed!).  I think I can get the empty weight under 2100 lbs with some more work.  

It also has a super light carbon fiber cowling.  I'm not sure what the Ovation cowlings are made out of but I think Mod Works had them made up lighter to help with the weight issue (just an assumption).  

-Ben

[carusoam]

Today’s Os get a carbon fiber cowl...  extra light... I got to pick up the parts at the show at KOSH last year... (physically lift)

I could sense my legs starting to run.... so I put the parts back down.... 

I think the range of HP for all LBs starts at... near 220..?

• 217 PFM
• 240 Eagle derated IO550
• 270 Bravo
• 280 O1
• 310 O3
   

The difference in extra HP Really shows up in the T/O run... Climb rate... and UL....

The electronic ignition is just starting to really show up in certificated planes this year...
 

See if I can connect the link for the D-parted O...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[bfreelove]

Thanks!

[JT]

I was told by an ex Mooney employee that the Ovation landing gear would not be a bolt-on to the L  I would confirm that before shipping parts from France,etc. 

[bfreelove]

Thanks for the heads up JT!  I've researched it a lot and think it might be possible, but it would be a big project for sure, requires changing almost all the main gear parts, brakes, and gear doors.  It's not on the top of my list at the moment since I don't really need the useful load increase (although it would be nice to have the fully enclosed gear), but if I could find the parts for reasonable cost I would probably keep them in the back of the hangar in case I ever want to tackle that one.   I'm more likely going to try it going the route that Rocket did for that same gear, or just work on an STC for getting the allowed takeoff weight increase with the landing weight still at 2900.  Landing weight can be 95% of the gross weight if the takeoff performance is sufficient.  This is where the magic 3368 number comes from for the other long bodies (3200/.95).  Now I just need to find the time.....

[JT]

What is involved in getting the STC? There are probably a number of 550 conversions out there that could benefit & possibly share in the cost. I know of one that’s sadly been sitting on the ramp for the last three years.

[bfreelove]

To get the current gear approved to 3200 lbs would be a fair amount of work.  Some engineering to put together the data and then the paperwork.  Just increasing the gross weight with the current landing weight would just be paperwork.  All my experience is in experimental aircraft (aerobatics and air racing), but have some friends with a lot of certification experience which are willing to help out.  I've talked with one other L owner that was interested already.  Only eight were converted by Mod Works before Hurricane Charly wiped out a bunch more, and two have been totaled since then so it's a pretty small crowd.  

[Hank]

I know someone with a Liquid Rocket. Haven't been to ride, but they sound awesome even if they look like they were hit with anti-aircraft fire. Kind of like my panel . . . . .

[bfreelove]

Hahaha!  I'd like to take a Liquid Rocket apart and see how they did it.  

[GLJA]

FWIW:

1- it’s in Edmonton, not Quebec

2- it’s been listed in Kijiji for months now, and was listed for parts prior to that (mostly panel replacement, although I can’t see any upgrades on the panel from the previous posts)

He hasn’t budged from the $100 AMU price since he first posted. 

[drapo]

I stand corrected! I picked up the ad on a Québec french listing, so I guess this guy is pretty desperate to get rid of it 

[chrisk]

Maybe its just me, but I would not touch this plane, and certainly not at $100k. 

[Mcstealth]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:20 PM, philip_g said:

I don't really know anything about these except "they were bad" that I've seen around here and most were converted to a different engine. Aside from parts what were the shortcomings?

No UL. Porsche no supporting engine. 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

No UL. Porsche no supporting engine. 

They had useful load with the Porsche engine. But replace it with a Continental 5XX and fuel tanks tomsupport it, UL can be less than the pilot's weight . . . . Thus the birthing of the Liquid Rocket (so very few of them!).