gsxrpilot talked me into a K252... is this it?

[gsxrpilot]

36 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

How many hangars do you have?!!

Only one at the moment. But over the course of two Mooneys, I've rented two and owned two hangars. Not all at the same time.

[aviatoreb]

46 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Only one at the moment. But over the course of two Mooneys, I've rented two and owned two hangars. Not all at the same time.

I like your hangar - you can drive your car in and park it before you pull the plane out.  Not me I have to pull the plane out first to make room for the car.

[ottorecker]

4 hours ago, 231MJ said:

The turbo makes a big difference in not only performance but peace of mind, knowing on a hot day you can climb out of Tahoe or Denver or Las Vegas with little difficulty. 

^^^^THIS ...and

If you are flying into mountain airports it’s generally not about getting into them but getting out of them where performance is concerned.  Turbo climb performance is definitely your friend in this case.  Our recent decision to purchase an M20K was much more about climb performance then cruise performance.  If regularly venturing into mountain airports is not your mission then a NA airplane should meet your needs fine.  We flew our NA Mooney regularly in the mountains and it was not severely limiting, but you should know your personal limits, pick good days and get mountain flying instruction.  If you like high country flying and plan on a future move there, don’t underestimate the piece of mind turbo climb performance gives you and the ability to widen your ‘days’ of available flying.  I really appreciate the turbo’s ability to lower my stress level in the mountains, especially with pax in the aircraft.

[gsxrpilot]

I flew an M20C across the Rockies a couple of times. It was quite capable and I felt perfectly safe. 

But the M20K 252 is a whole different story in the mountains. Last summer I was taking off out of APA (Centennial). They have a sign at the taxiway just as you reach the runway, that displays Density Altitude. I pulled up to the line and saw the sign reading Density Altitude - 11,600 ft. I though, hmmmm... that's a big number. Then I rolled out onto the runway and took off. Another time my wife and I went to Steamboat Springs for lunch. It was a hot summer day and the route was KBJC to KSBS. We departed 31R and flew runway heading all the way to SBS. It's only 26 miles from BJC (field elevation 5673) to the ridge next to Longs Peak which at it's low point is 13,223 ft. Without deviating from our runway heading, we crossed the ridge at 15,000 and climbing.

Every time I fly this 252 I think how privileged and lucky I am to be able to do so. They are just wonderful airplanes.

[larryb]

I owned a J for 5 years and a K for 3. According to GP the K is 20 kt faster block-block for a years worth of cross country flying each.

[kortopates]

11 minutes ago, larryb said:

I owned a J for 5 years and a K for 3. According to GP the K is 20 kt faster block-block for a years worth of cross country flying each.

Only 20 kts? I think the amount is proportional to the altitude you fly, the higher the more favorable.  The 252 has 10 kts over the 231 going by book numbers alone too.

[SteveC]

Well it looks like my interest in this plane sparked someone else’s because they’re doing a prebuy on it today.  Oh well... live and learn.  Praying to the Karma Gods to send a better plane!

[larryb]

10 hours ago, kortopates said:

Only 20 kts? I think the amount is proportional to the altitude you fly, the higher the more favorable.  The 252 has 10 kts over the 231 going by book numbers alone too.

I just re-did the analysis. The delta is a bit less now. 

J: 

101 flights

20,046 nm

average speed cross-country 133 kT

 

K:

167 flights

39,451 nm

average speed cross-country 147 kT

 

This is from the Garmin Pilot logbook report function.  Mine has TKS, so not the fastest in the fleet. I do generally fly high, 12.5K on my regular KRHV - KTRK run, and 16.5K to 17.5K on my longer trips. I do not cruise at high power settings, most of the flights are 28" 10.5 GPH LOP.  I'm not sure why this is, but it just seems that 75% of my flights involve a headwind component...

[gsxrpilot]

You'd rather find one with the KFC 150 autopilot and the Altitude pre-select option anyway.

[xavierde]

14 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Every time I fly this 252 I think how privileged and lucky I am to be able to do so. They are just wonderful airplanes.

I agree! and thank you for giving me the last push I needed to pull the trigger on mine.

[Oldguy]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

You'd rather find one with the KFC 150 autopilot and the Altitude pre-select option anyway.

Okay, didn't want to spoil anyone's corn flakes, but was thinking the same thing.

Sorry you missed out on it @SteveC, but there are and will be others.

 

[SteveC]

2 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Okay, didn't want to spoil anyone's corn flakes, but was thinking the same thing.

Sorry you missed out on it @SteveC, but there are and will be others.

 

Thank you! I’ll find that diamond in the rough...

[MIm20c]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

You'd rather find one with the KFC 150 autopilot and the Altitude pre-select option anyway.

I didn’t take the time to look but it might have utilized the gad43e that integrates the altitude pre select into the g500. It’s very likely considering the above average maintenance and upgrades that were installed. IMO this was a nice 252...

[bradp]

Also Steve - try to find the best (maintained) example of whatever model you’ve decided on. 
 

Last bit of advice - if you have one toddler there may be another toddler at some point in the future.  Useful load varies hugely by model and year.  You’re going to want a FF payload of something reasonable for family trips.  @carusoam puts it best - kids start out weighing less but bring a lot of stuff. Then they bring less stuff but weigh more so it’s pretty even In the end. 

[carusoam]

12 hours ago, SteveC said:

Well it looks like my interest in this plane sparked someone else’s because they’re doing a prebuy on it today.  Oh well... live and learn.  Praying to the Karma Gods to send a better plane!

buying a plane is a learning experience...

Buying a second plane is light years easier... (how easy is a light year? ) 
 

It can take a year to figure how everything works... and what you should have bought, that today you don’t find really important...

With MS, you can identify with a particular MSer... and figure out what is important in his decisions...

 

Buying a plane takes a certain amount of money to make it happen...  it is really easy when you know how much, and where you are going to spend it...

It can be really tough when you move too fast...

It can be really annoying when you go to slow...

Mooneys still seem to be selling well in this viral environment...
 

One part recession, and one part, not going places and meeting face to face...

With MS, you’re never alone...

Best regards,

-a-

[Greg_D]

Well, I chatted with the OP a few days ago.  Looks like he settled on a Cirrus.  They really know how to market to the inexperienced pilot.  I don't think he even got to sit in a Mooney before someone at the airport talked him into brand C.

[ZuluZulu]

15 minutes ago, Greg_D said:

Well, I chatted with the OP a few days ago.  Looks like he settled on a Cirrus.  They really know how to market to the inexperienced pilot.  I don't think he even got to sit in a Mooney before someone at the airport talked him into brand C.

Godspeed to the efficiency ninja.

[Nick Pilotte]

I sat in an SR22 and the wife did also. I didn’t cave to the marketing yet.  The Mooney efficiency, steel cage, and damn good looks are still winning here.  There is a glimmer of hope for me. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Nick Pilotte

[louisut]

33 minutes ago, Nick Pilotte said:

I sat in an SR22 and the wife did also. I didn’t cave to the marketing yet.  The Mooney efficiency, steel cage, and damn good looks are still winning here.  There is a glimmer of hope for me. 

While the Mooney is perhaps a better value, if it's in your budget and it fits your mission, the SR22 also an excellent plane. We joke about BRS, but it is a unique safety feature. If the SR22 speaks to you more, then I'd send it with no hesitation.

Edited June 18, 2020 by louisut

[Nick Pilotte]

The fortunate part for me and my past experience is that I am not brand dedicated but will make a selection based on what meets my needs.  I’m thankful to have true experts like M20Doc chime in and give thoughts on their opinions because he services both brands.  This website has also introduced me to more virtual contacts that have been very helpful in working me through specifics of avionics and changes through the years.  I just need to get the wife into an Ovation now.  Actually, I need to get some O right seat time to get familiar too.

[carusoam]

I’m not a big fan of the over promise and under deliver aspect of the parachute....

Training and Experience is still a requirement around the traffic pattern...

Outside the traffic pattern, there are still many options... 
 

Go O!

A simple flight in an O should seal the deal...
 

All the discussion about the parachute....

It is still a very imperfect solution...

I’d still choose the Mooney.... Speed, efficiency, and safety...

Training is better than a parachute...
Regular maintenance is better than a parachute...

Fuel in the tanks is better than a parachute...

There are some really unique things that a parachute can do... but, the statistics for it become pretty tiny.

The parachute does act like a giant pacifier... keeps people from worrying about things that are highly unlikely to happen... 
 

Sort of a seat belts and airbag discussion...

Consider the airbag seat belts.... i think all Mooneys are qualified to get them installed... in the event of landing on a very short impromptu runway...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Nick Pilotte said:

The fortunate part for me and my past experience is that I am not brand dedicated but will make a selection based on what meets my needs.  I’m thankful to have true experts like M20Doc chime in and give thoughts on their opinions because he services both brands.  This website has also introduced me to more virtual contacts that have been very helpful in working me through specifics of avionics and changes through the years.  I just need to get the wife into an Ovation now.  Actually, I need to get some O right seat time to get familiar too.

I know of a nice Ovation coming to market, FIKI, WAAS, ADSB......owner is an occasional poster here.

Clarence

[Nick Pilotte]

The parachute is a small comfort for my wife, but wouldn’t have been a help for the real reason she likes it.  Her father died in a stall spin accident when she was 16. It was very sad and it has been a slow path back to GA for her (23 years) but she has been reassured by her brother (an A&P/IA) and her boss who is also a pilot. The discussions about risk planning and management are significant and personal minimums are pretty substantial for me as well at this point.  I practice with my CFI and we work on the emergency procedures weekly, brief and debrief each time out to be as ready as I can be. Clarence, I’ll PM you about the O. 

[carusoam]

Knowledge is power (for some people)...

Parachute or no parachute....

A good ‘right seat ready’ class is highly recommended.... this is a class that is put together by a few ladies in Mooney aviation... 
 

Are you familiar?

Go O!

Best regards,

-a-
 

 

[shawnd]

Heh - seems like a pattern. Everyone starts off with a different plane in mind but ends up in a 252