Serious about buying a M20J Mooney from NJ... get a rope! Haha!!!

[SteveC]

I’m a newbie, just joined the forum yesterday, my “hello post”, think I found my Mooney, it’s up in NJ.

The guys at Air-Mods & Repair Inc. are selling it.  Do you guys see anything wrong with it?

@gsxrpilot was nice enough to spend some time with me tonight on the phone giving me all the ends and out of the different models and such.  Great guy!  I’ve got smoke coming out my ears. 

Appreciate any wisdom you guys can throw my way.  This will be my first plane ever!  Super excited!  So glad I joined Mooneyspace!

 

[carusoam]

Welcome back Steve!

What’s that in you avatar pic... is that an albatross around your neck? 

As far as the M20J...
Nice classic mid 90s look for an IFR traveler...

Would make the basis of being a great NA MSer...
 

Is that what you want?

It is the most modern of all the M20Js...

Most people around here would be very happy with a machine like that...

others want a little more... TCs, TKS, and O2systems...

Air mods has been generally good to work with... but has had an imperfect record...

next steps get the logs... pore over them line by line...

Get lots o pics... anything you can get before committing to spend money too soon...

Expect that everything will be easy to review... its in near brand new condition based on its hours....

TBO is getting close... you want to know if it has been sitting or flying recently... lots of years, not much flying hours to match...
PPIs are the best protection for your wallet...

Don’t be slow... the nice ones are still moving quickly....
 

Looks like traveling across the country is in your future...  buying a plane far away adds to the challenge... doing it during Covid-19 time will be interesting...

Get excited, be ready to jump in... keep learning....

PP thoughts only... not a CFI, mechanic, or sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

I think personally its a tad bit high on price. 

[SteveC]

Thanks bud!  That ole 172p was my go to plane for ppl training, me and her are tight, did really well in my check ride with her.  I’ve landed her with 18 kt Xwinds on one of my ppl cross counties.  Would have never tried it if I hadn’t landed with 16 kts Xwinds a few days before with the instructor.  My light bulb moment for me was playing with the rudder petals on final.  My best landing is that one with the instructor... we could feel the tat-tat of the main wheels touch before sitting her down.  Have both of those flights on video with a cam out on the wing so I can review every flight and landing.  Was instrumental in me getting my ppl in 5 months while my companies.  

Thanks for the advice on the J... I was thinking the same on the total time.  Can’t find much on flight info?

SteveC, tried changing my name to FlyFervFly but my auto fill jumped in and changed my name to my same name so now I can change it for 180 days... love technology!  No test to see if the name your changing it to is the name already there. The key board on this iPad is driving me crazy!  Not a far drive!

[carusoam]

The logs will have a good idea of times over the years...

50hrs per year evenly spread out would be good...

100 hrs per year in the first decade and a half, and none for the last decade would be an engine health question...
 

And... as Niko points out... can you find other Js this nice at a lower price range..?

I nearly bought a J a decade ago close to this price... prior to the Great Recession...

Spent a year waiting out the recession... not flying...

I was going to tell you there are two places in MS to keep a good pic...  what is the Marines Jet you have there?

 

Life is short, fly fast...

-a-

[Bob - S50]

Always ask about the useful load.

[jetdriven]

9 hours ago, SteveC said:

I’m a newbie, just joined the forum yesterday, my “hello post”, think I found my Mooney, it’s up in NJ.

The guys at Air-Mods & Repair Inc. are selling it.  Do you guys see anything wrong with it?

@gsxrpilot was nice enough to spend some time with me tonight on the phone giving me all the ends and out of the different models and such.  Great guy!  I’ve got smoke coming out my ears. 

Appreciate any wisdom you guys can throw my way.  This will be my first plane ever!  Super excited!  So glad I joined Mooneyspace!

 

If it’s that blue and white 205 we looked at it. The paint is in awful condition, and it has  a runout engine and the entire interior plastic needs repainted and reinstalled. For reference, my client bought a 1987 205, excellent factory paint and 2000tt,  but the rest the same, for 88k.  This one is 45k more. 

[rbridges]

2 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

If it’s that blue and white 205 we looked at it. The paint is in awful condition, and it has  a runout engine and the entire interior plastic needs repainted and reinstalled.

The ad says 493 SMOH, but doesn't say when.

[jetdriven]

It was propstruck and reassembled, twice. The engine itself hasn’t been overhauled for well over the 12yr tbo.   Iirc since 1994. And it’s been vastly under flown and tied down outside.   
you might as well budget for an engine overhaul now, and then ask yourself what 175k will get you in this market.
it didn’t even have ADS-B 

[jetdriven]

Idk.  Twice even. Probably the same person who didn’t put a single dollar into the panel, Ties it down outside on Long Island for a decade, and tried to spray clearcoat over faded paint to rejuvenate it. But now the clearcoat is peeling off.

[rbridges]

20 minutes ago, philip_g said:

says the prop is 493 SMOH, says the engine is at 1455 unless I'm missing it somewhere else. it's a bit odd the prop was overhauled and nothing done to the engine isn't it? Rules out a prop strike, maybe it was leaking.

you're right.  I'm obviously lacking early morning reading skills.

[SteveC]

21 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I think personally its a tad bit high on price. 

I’m totally green when it comes to planes.  This will be my first plane ever.  Thanks for the reply!  Good to know!

[SteveC]

21 hours ago, carusoam said:

The logs will have a good idea of times over the years...

50hrs per year evenly spread out would be good...

100 hrs per year in the first decade and a half, and none for the last decade would be an engine health question...
 

And... as Niko points out... can you find other Js this nice at a lower price range..?

I nearly bought a J a decade ago close to this price... prior to the Great Recession...

Spent a year waiting out the recession... not flying...

I was going to tell you there are two places in MS to keep a good pic...  what is the Marines Jet you have there?

 

Life is short, fly fast...

-a-

Thanks... that jet was at Hooks when I was having lunch... zero affiliation but loved the way the pic came out.  Still learning how to navigate MS.

I’m thinking there’s another recession coming, buy now or wait????

[SteveC]

20 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

Always ask about the useful load.

Yes! Good points!

[SteveC]

12 hours ago, jetdriven said:

If it’s that blue and white 205 we looked at it. The paint is in awful condition, and it has  a runout engine and the entire interior plastic needs repainted and reinstalled. For reference, my client bought a 1987 205, excellent factory paint and 2000tt,  but the rest the same, for 88k.  This one is 45k more. 

Very good to know, Thank you... figured something was off on it.

[SteveC]

11 hours ago, rbridges said:

you're right.  I'm obviously lacking early morning reading skills.

Haha... happens a lot here as well

[HRM]

Welcome to the money pit! Oops, I meant to say Mooney cockpit.

[Niko182]

I should add why I think it's overpriced. The engine is high time. Even though the 430 is a waas GPS, its over 20 years old and should be priced accordingly with that. when a J sells for +130k, it needs something special too it. whether that be a gtn750, or a brand new interior, or g5's, a full engine monitor, or TKS, and when looking at this it has nothing special. it doesn't even have ads-b. It just has nothing that stands out. Why should someone pay a premium price for a basic airplane?

[SteveC]

Thanks for the breakdown... the learning curve is straight up!

[Seth]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:47 PM, Niko182 said:

I think personally its a tad bit high on price. 

It may be ever so slightly high like you said, however it's not that high.  It used to be high.

-The 172 and PA28 aircraft have been scooped up the last 3-4 years for flight schools to get pilots into the system for the pilot shortage that was real until COVID19, and will be real again in a few years as retirements continue and demand picks back up.

-The high price due to demand of used 172 and PA28 aircraft caused those buyers to go elsewhere for their first airplanes as they could get a $50-$60k 172 or PA28 . . . or a M20C/E/F.  These aircraft have since increased in price due to not as many good ones being on the market.  In turn, people started buying M20J's, and those have jumped up as well.

My Missile as an example is an 1983 M20J-300.  Just a few years ago I'd say it was worth $135,000 to the right buyer, would sell in a short time for $125,000 and I'd give it away for $115,000 tomorrow if needed.  Now, that's just not the case.  With it's new prop and overhauled engine, it's worth every penny of $150,000, likely closer to $160,000 for the right buyer.  

Thus a 1994 J without the Missile mod, 11 years newer on the airframe, one of the last years the M20J was produced?  $135k may be a touch high, but for the right buyer, it's in the ballpark and thus justifies why I think my airplane is now worth more.  

The good airplanes are not seeing a price reduction during this downturn.  They may soon, but for now they are not.

-Seth

[elimansour]

You can’t go wrong with an M20J - but make sure to get the right one.  It may be better to pay a little more and get one with no damage history, a recent low time engine, ads-b in/out, panel upgraded avionics, good or newpaint/interior, etc.  For planes that do not check all those boxes, reduce the price accordingly.  I know the resale inventory is low right now but there should be some on the horizon.  You might also want to let Jimmy Garrison (All American/GMAX) know of your interest and he may find you an off market one that will fit the bill.  Good Luck and hope you find the right one soon!!

[Seth]

26 minutes ago, elimansour said:

You can’t go wrong with an M20J - but make sure to get the right one.  It may be better to pay a little more and get one with no damage history, a recent low time engine, ads-b in/out, panel upgraded avionics, good or newpaint/interior, etc.  For planes that do not check all those boxes, reduce the price accordingly.  I know the resale inventory is low right now but there should be some on the horizon.  You might also want to let Jimmy Garrison (All American/GMAX) know of your interest and he may find you an off market one that will fit the bill.  Good Luck and hope you find the right one soon!!

Agreed fully.  However, the reason the planes on the market are priced higher is indeed a supply/demand curve.  That said, right now, demand has dropped due to the economy grinding to a halt.  

However, as noted, the lack of 172/PA28 airframes available, or thier bubble, causing M20C/E/F models, and thus J/K models to be purchased by those normally not interested in Mooneys, well, it's part of the reason for the lack of supply AND increased prices.  

It is kind of satisfying the real secret of how good a Mooney is for the former price is getting out. 

-Seth

P.S. Dad Joke:  What manufacturing plant creates okay product?  A "Satisfactory"

[gsxrpilot]

The value of late model J's are going up. I do think this one is just a little on the high side. ADSB, engine monitor, and the whole panel for that matter can be upgraded. Paint and interior can be done as well. But there is no mount of upgrading that can turn an early model J with square windows and a fixed bench seat in the back to the late model J with all the refinements both inside and out. So that fact helps it maintain value. It's a great upgrade candidate. The ceiling for J's right now is about $200K. This one has been very neglected and is a bit more than $60K away from that top number. But as these late model J's become more and more rare, the values will continue to go up. 

New paint, an Aerocomfort interior, a G3X, GFC500, GTN750, and all the other goodies... and an engine... this would be a $200K Mooney. But that's more than $100K of work right there...

 

[jaylw314]

For comparison, the guys at All-American are listing a 1980 M20J for $99k.  Engine is near runout, but it's an A3B6 with a 3-blade MT prop and a few other goodies.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/192716299/1980-mooney-m20j-201?dlr=1&pcid=17527&crmid=614667&sfc=0&if=1&smfrl=0

[ArtVandelay]

For comparison, the guys at All-American are listing a 1980 M20J for $99k.  Engine is near runout, but it's an A3B6 with a 3-blade MT prop and a few other goodies.

And I saw him say they are selling planes without advertising them, you can send an email to them and get on list to see what’s available before they go public.