Jungle Pilot Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 My Mooney 252 needs to be ferried 20 miles to its home airport after repairs since I haven’t been able to acquire aircraft insurance yet. The ferry pilot would have to have his own insurance covering the flight. Does anyone do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jungle Pilot said: My Mooney 252 needs to be ferried 20 miles to its home airport after repairs since I haven’t been able to acquire aircraft insurance yet. The ferry pilot would have to have his own insurance covering the flight. Does anyone do that? Lot's of ferry pilots carry insurance, but only to cover themselves, not to cover the airplane. Or at least that's what I understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, Jungle Pilot said: My Mooney 252 needs to be ferried 20 miles to its home airport after repairs since I haven’t been able to acquire aircraft insurance yet. The ferry pilot would have to have his own insurance covering the flight. Does anyone do that? Sorry to hear it still hasn't come through yet. I've heard due to COVID on these pages that underwriters are slower than normal recently to process new apps. Hopefully it won't be long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Try contacting Parker Woodruff at Airspeed Insurance. 214-295-5055 He's a mooney guy and also is very active with underwriters right now. He's able to get aircraft covered as quick as a day or two. http://airspeedinsurance.com/ What are the two airports for the short flight? Good luck! -Seth Edited May 22, 2020 by Seth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Pilot Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 The flight is from F70 to L18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 a non owned policy should cover it for your ferry pilot, or perhaps his plane's policy will have a non owned provision in it. This may all be moot by fine print when for hire, etc. I am sure Parker can get your ferry pilot set up for a day for a short flight to insure your plane, but more importantly his liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Jungle Pilot said: The flight is from F70 to L18. L18 is a pretty short runway for a 252. Have you done your transition training already? Might be a good idea to talk to @kortopates or one of the other instructors with a lot of 252 time. I wouldn’t land my Ovation there, but then I’m kind of a wuss when it comes to short runways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesm20b Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 I never had a problem getting insurance for a flight. I just call my agent (Falcon) tell him what date I need the insurance for and he puts a binder on it. Is the only reason your not flying the plane yourself is for insurance or do you need a need a ferry pilot to fly the airplane? I'm available and would be happy to fly the airplane from F70 to L18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said: L18 is a pretty short runway for a 252. Have you done your transition training already? Might be a good idea to talk to @kortopates or one of the other instructors with a lot of 252 time. I wouldn’t land my Ovation there, but then I’m kind of a wuss when it comes to short runways. Correct speed and stable approach is key for a runway of this length.....any model Mooney. I landed Ovation many, many times at L52, without hesitation, and without any excessive breaking. Many times, no braking at all required. Plenty of runway. Possibly practice all this at your favorite longer runway airport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said: L18 is a pretty short runway for a 252. Have you done your transition training already? Might be a good idea to talk to @kortopates or one of the other instructors with a lot of 252 time. I wouldn’t land my Ovation there, but then I’m kind of a wuss when it comes to short runways. If youre on speed and touch down at the numbers, you can be stopped fully in under 900ft in an ovation. With the 252 being lighter, i wouldnt have any problem taking it there. Was gonna go there today but found a flat spot on the tire and decided against doing short field landings until new tires are on the plane. If you do go to short fields, your tires wear faster. I have about 275 hours on mine and they need to be replaced for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, MooneyMitch said: Correct speed and stable approach is key for a runway of this length.....any model Mooney. I landed Ovation many, many times at L52, without hesitation, and without any excessive breaking. Many times, no braking at all required. Plenty of runway. Possibly practice all this at your favorite longer runway airport. I guess I don’t feel like I’m always at my “A” game 100% of the time and sometimes the ceiling is low or it’s windy so I like long wide runways with ILS approaches. Been to Oceano dozens of times in my Ovation. But never on a gusty day with marginal conditions at maximum landing weight. I apologize for the thread drift. If it were an Ovation into CRQ I would be all over this, but a 252 into L18 is not for me. Edited May 22, 2020 by ilovecornfields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Summary... Stuff I have learned around here.... 1) Plane owner is always responsible for his own stuff.... 2) Parker is awesome about knowing and sharing the details regarding aviation insurance... 3) Covering the ferry pilot, and trip is often done with a phone call to your insurance guy to make sure your policy has all the dots and crosses... 4) If your plane isn’t insured yet... are you relying on somebody else’s insurance in the event a tornado has a hangar fall on it? 5) For real uncomfortable moments... wait to find out the insurance answers, after the mishap occurs... 6) There Have been a few instances Of a gear leg collapsing, or a ground strike, or a wing tip getting torn off... while taxiing... 7) In some cases, like these... the plane gets totaled... and you get what you get from the insurance.... which may not be the same as the price you paid for the plane... 8) What’s the upside of moving the plane without insurance to cover your your asset..? 9) What is the downside of a 252 falling in a pothole while taxiing..? Actual examples may have odds like 1:10k... PP thoughts only, not an insurance guru... examples given are taken from actual MS occurrences.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 “Been to Oceano dozens of times in my Ovation. But never on a gusty day with marginal conditions at maximum landing weight.“ Ok, different story in marginal conditions. I’ve done windy days at L52..... that can be exciting there indeed. Marginal, never. And never max load. I can’t imagine the need for that at L52, unless there’s absolutely no other choice...... such as SBP, PRB, or SMX . You are wise. I will say, my opinion, I believe it’s an excellent idea to know all performance levels of your specific airplane, and your abilities to perform those, just in case the need does present itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 I’ll do it if you pay my gas over and back. I’m board... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Fallbrook, L18, is 2,160 x 60 feet on top of a hill with drop offs on both sides. Basically, your aircraft carrier approach and landing. I worked with one student who wanted to go in there. We made it, but it was very uncomfortable. I let him out and had him look at a couple of demo approaches that I did. They were uncomfortable for me, and I recommended that he never go in there again. In my opinion certainly a long body Mooney shouldn't be based there. The 252 is very marginal. I wouldn't want to be the instructor who released a student after training to be based there in any Mooney other than a C, or E model, which wouldn't have too much trouble. L52, Oceano, is really a pretty easy airport at 2,325 x 50 feet in any model Mooney. If has plenty of "lead in" to get set up. If I have a student in that area I always work that airport in near the end of our training. It's a different matter when there is a direct 25 knot crosswind. After I did my landing video in Porterville, we flew over to Ocean to stay the night. It's a beautiful setting almost on the beach. You can walk to the condos that are rented a block away. Anyway, the winds were blowing so hard that I had to go around twice. On downwind the third time I told Shirley that if I couldn't make this time, we'd fly down to Santa Barbara and stay there. The winds cooperated and I committed to the landing which went well. For all practical purposes it is a one way runway. Short runways and big crosswinds really don't mix well. I have seen a Bonanza stuck in the mud 100+ feet off the end of the runway one time. However, except for strong crosswinds, if on proper speed and slope, the airport should provide no problem for a proficient Mooney pilot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: I’ll do it if you pay my gas over and back. I’m board... Better have good insurance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Insurance won’t matter, because if you go down, you’re dead. That’s a guaranteed fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, donkaye said: Better have good insurance. My insurance covers me if I’m flying someone else’s plane. Actually they will fix it if I break it. If it is a mechanical defect, they won’t fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 34 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: My insurance covers me if I’m flying someone else’s plane. Actually they will fix it if I break it. If it is a mechanical defect, they won’t fix it. If you're ferrying for money, you're not covered by your own insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, donkaye said: If you're ferrying for money, you're not covered by your own insurance. I would have to call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 I'll go check out fallbrook tomorrow. Personally, if I'm light I would gladly fly into a sub 2k ft strip. Not anything against the people recommending to stay away from it. people have their personal minimums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnd Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 BTW - doesn't hurt to call your insurance broker/company up and ask the ferry pilot to be added to the policy temporarily. I did this for a flight 12.2 nm away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Pilot Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Answering Carusoam - 1) Plane owner is always responsible for his own stuff.... - of course. 2) Parker is awesome about knowing and sharing the details regarding aviation insurance... - I’m working with him. 3) Covering the ferry pilot, and trip is often done with a phone call to your insurance guy to make - sure your policy has all the dots and crosses... - I only have a no-motion policy on it right now. 4) If your plane isn’t insured yet... are you relying on somebody else’s insurance in the event a tornado has a hangar fall on it? - no-motion policy 5) For real uncomfortable moments... wait to find out the insurance answers, after the mishap occurs... - stupid 6) There Have been a few instances Of a gear leg collapsing, or a ground strike, or a wing tip getting torn off... while taxiing... - yes 7) In some cases, like these... the plane gets totaled... and you get what you get from the insurance.... which may not be the same as the price you paid for the plane... - yes 8) What’s the upside of moving the plane without insurance to cover your your asset..? - I am paying for a space at my home airport L18 and will have to start paying for hangar or tie-down at repair airport F70 9) What is the downside of a 252 falling in a pothole while taxiing..? - horrible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) @Jungle Pilot, who did the work at F70? I went to Expert Aircraft a while ago to have baffle seals installed and was pretty impressed with his work. Nice guy, too. Edited May 23, 2020 by ilovecornfields 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 4:06 PM, ilovecornfields said: L18 is a pretty short runway for a 252. Have you done your transition training already? Might be a good idea to talk to @kortopates or one of the other instructors with a lot of 252 time. I wouldn’t land my Ovation there, but then I’m kind of a wuss when it comes to short runways. Also best to make sure the engine idle speed is spot on for short runways. An idle speed that's 200 RPM too high made the difference between a 500ft and a 2500ft landing length for me. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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