Davidv Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Andy95W said: I have 6 apples, my friend has 3 apples. Together we have 8 apples? I thought of that too, they must have been factoring in a week of coffee and smoke breaks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Davidv said: I thought of that too, they must have been factoring in a week of coffee and smoke breaks. Definitely and those smoke breaks with Cuban cigars of course. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Davidv said: I thought of that too, they must have been factoring in a week of coffee and smoke breaks. Nah, with their pricing I'm thinking they've got more serious 'habits' to support! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 My old IA wasnt too fond of those guys using sheet metal screws that they allegedly screwed through his Cs fuselage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, bradp said: My old IA wasnt too fond of those guys using sheet metal screws that they allegedly screwed through his Cs fuselage You can say that again! -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 7:53 PM, Davidv said: I thought you guys may get a quick laugh on the avionics quote I got from Sarasota. I'm potentially looking at putting in a G3X, G5, GFC500 and got a pretty good quote from a shop that was recommended by another Mooney owner. Just for good measure, I decided to get a second quote from Sarasota Avionics since they are nearby. Again, the quote is only for a G3X, GFC500 (3 servo), G5 backup Sarasota: $62,360.00 including 285 hours of labor. Also included in that quote is $7,600 for a pilots panel. Apparently I'm getting the gold flake version. Include the yaw servo if you can. You won’t regret it. @Davidv you might want to touch base with @jclemens. They did a quote for me that was right in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67 m20F chump Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 If you have your old avionics returned to you take a good look at them. A friend had a junk radio returned instead if his newly display converted kx165. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusM Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 1:53 AM, Davidv said: I thought you guys may get a quick laugh on the avionics quote I got from Sarasota. I'm potentially looking at putting in a G3X, G5, GFC500 and got a pretty good quote from a shop that was recommended by another Mooney owner. Just for good measure, I decided to get a second quote from Sarasota Avionics since they are nearby. Again, the quote is only for a G3X, GFC500 (3 servo), G5 backup Sarasota: $62,360.00 including 285 hours of labor. Also included in that quote is $7,600 for a pilots panel. Apparently I'm getting the gold flake version. Didn't you tell'em you bring your own Mooney? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 hours ago, bradp said: Include the yaw servo if you can. You won’t regret it. @Davidv you might want to touch base with @jclemens. They did a quote for me that was right in line. Thanks @bradp. While there is no doubt the yaw servo adds some value, I'm curious about the specific usefulness since I have electric rudder trim. In a plane without rudder trim, I could see it being highly useful in climbs and descents. While in cruise in NAV mode the yaw servo wouldn't be used much in my plane. Since I'm not very educated on this subject can you let me know if I'm missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Try MAC Avionics at KLAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 @Davidv you are absolutely correct. I believe @donkaye has rudder trim and the YD servo and seems to like it. @Bob - S50, me and I’m sure some others have no rudder trim and the YD servo. The ride is definitely improved in turbulence with the servo. I’d estimate that 80% of “tail wag” is eliminated and it improves the ride in turbulence maybe 20-25%. For those of us without rudder trim, it allows for feet off climbs and descents, which is fantastic. If you didn’t have rudder trim I’d advocate for it, but since you do it’s just a comfort vs cost / budget calculus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Davidv said: Thanks @bradp. While there is no doubt the yaw servo adds some value, I'm curious about the specific usefulness since I have electric rudder trim. In a plane without rudder trim, I could see it being highly useful in climbs and descents. While in cruise in NAV mode the yaw servo wouldn't be used much in my plane. Since I'm not very educated on this subject can you let me know if I'm missing something? I only have a few hours in a mid body. However, after a lot of hours in a short and long body I’d definitely recommend the servo in a short body because of tail wag but not necessarily in the long body. The rudder trim is a separate system, is retained, and needs to be adjusted during flight because the servo is not strong enough to keep it trimmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Thanks @bradp an @MIm20c, I didn't think about the turbulence factor much since I usually click off the AP in anything more than some intermittent light chop since my KAP150 doesn't handle it too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 7:53 PM, Davidv said: I thought you guys may get a quick laugh on the avionics quote I got from Sarasota. I'm potentially looking at putting in a G3X, G5, GFC500 and got a pretty good quote from a shop that was recommended by another Mooney owner. Just for good measure, I decided to get a second quote from Sarasota Avionics since they are nearby. Again, the quote is only for a G3X, GFC500 (3 servo), G5 backup Sarasota: $62,360.00 including 285 hours of labor. Also included in that quote is $7,600 for a pilots panel. Apparently I'm getting the gold flake version. A few years ago when it was time to have the GDL-88 installed, I requested estimates from several local and distant shops. Sarasota was the highest at $3,000 more than the others. In the end I had selected Treasure Coast up in Fort Pierce and am still happy with the work they did, all these years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said: A few years ago when it was time to have the GDL-88 installed, I requested estimates from several local and distant shops. Sarasota was the highest at $3,000 more than the others. In the end I had selected Treasure Coast up in Fort Pierce and am still happy with the work they did, all these years later. I actually had Treasure Coast put in my GNX-375 and was happy with both their price and service. It didn't work perfectly at first and I did have to go back a few times, but Cathy really went out of her way to make sure things were made right. I know it can be challenging to interface a brand new piece of equipment with other avionics that are 20-30 yrs old. However, for this larger installation I feel more comfortable going with a shop that has installed the same setup in my exact plane multiple times and they are a little too small for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMcClure Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 I decided against the yaw servo on my install. Maybe i don't know what i am missing. But i didn't see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Sarasota has/had specials that a good deals, their hangars were mostly empty, so they were more competitive back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiplane Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 For a significant panel upgrade, it takes a full two days to figure out what will remain in the plane, and how to interface it to the new equipment. Another day to insure the new things will fit into an existing panel without requiring a new one. And if a new panel has to be cut, it's another day to lay it out, proof it, and send the print to be cut. Wiring new avionics is less time consuming than older equipment. There are a lot fewer wires since most communications are RS232, ethernet & ARINC, but the quality of wires and connections has to be higher to ensure HIRF/RFI protection of the signals. Removing old wiring is tedious, it can take 2-3 days to do it properly. That's why so many shops leave most of it, cutting off what's easy to get to, and leaving the rest. Things like this are broken out on a good estimate, so the shop can show you where they are spending your money for a quality job. When you get a lump sum estimate, ask for a detailed one. If they can't give one, then they don't know what they're doing. I had to allocate manpower among more than a dozen techs working on our company-owned aircraft, and also on outside customer's aircraft. The accountant wanted every minute of everyone's time billed, and I gave it to him. It's not only possible, it's the only way the shop can stay in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Davidv said: Thanks @bradp. While there is no doubt the yaw servo adds some value, I'm curious about the specific usefulness since I have electric rudder trim. In a plane without rudder trim, I could see it being highly useful in climbs and descents. While in cruise in NAV mode the yaw servo wouldn't be used much in my plane. Since I'm not very educated on this subject can you let me know if I'm missing something? Electric rudder trim and yaw damping are two entirely different animals. I center the rudder in level flight with the YD off, then turn it on. In turbulence it makes a worthwhile difference. It's cheap for the benefit in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Moonster Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Last October got a quote from them. Earliest availability was Feb 2020 For G3x with G5 backup and engine information quote was $42k and was expected to take 2 months. I don't know who is paying their prices. But dang! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, 59Moonster said: Last October got a quote from them. Earliest availability was Feb 2020 For G3x with G5 backup and engine information quote was $42k and was expected to take 2 months. I don't know who is paying their prices. But dang! Nobody is. That's the "go away and leave me alone" quote. Guess it's a good thing that they have a lot of business? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 I got the yaw damper in 52Q. IMO its definitely worth it. It makes quite a noticeable different in turbulence. I don't have rudder trim, but as don stated, those are 2 different things, that accomplish 2 very different tasks. If you look at the pireps for the GFC500, every person that has gotten the yaw damper has said its worth it, regardless of the aircraft. the yaw damper can be on without the gfc500 being active, and even hand flying it, you notice a pretty large difference. I would strongly advise getting it. The moment you try it is the moment you'll realize you want it. The people that are advising against it are the ones that haven't tried it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 20 hours ago, Niko182 said: I got the yaw damper in 52Q. IMO its definitely worth it. It makes quite a noticeable different in turbulence. I don't have rudder trim, but as don stated, those are 2 different things, that accomplish 2 very different tasks. If you look at the pireps for the GFC500, every person that has gotten the yaw damper has said its worth it, regardless of the aircraft. the yaw damper can be on without the gfc500 being active, and even hand flying it, you notice a pretty large difference. I would strongly advise getting it. The moment you try it is the moment you'll realize you want it. The people that are advising against it are the ones that haven't tried it. I’ve got to agree with Niko182. It’s worth it if it can fit into the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianWilkins Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Sarasota quoted me $25k to install an Aspen E5. I told them to go pound sand. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 I had a good experience at Daytona aircraft services. Garmin dealer. I had a ton of work done and it all seemed reasonable. Can email you the bill in a few days if you like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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