Here's a Thought Post COVID - Private Jets

[cliffy]

Read a short comment in an article that mentioned private jets

The construct was that we might see an increase in private jet sales after COVID as a way corporations can avoid the risks of flying their employees on the airlines. 

Interesting thought!

Edited May 19, 2020 by cliffy

[carusoam]

So many people are going to zoom meetings and other apps...

plenty of travel budget to be used for the big guys to travel without getting in the tube...

Just the experience of getting to the plane in a big airport puts you in close contact with so many individuals... from every red zone on earth...

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Working remotely misses something...

I learned so much about what is going on in different areas during coffee breaks, and lunch breaks, and beer breaks after work... 

Opportunities fall out of those added discussions...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

23 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Working remotely misses something...

I learned so much about what is going on in different areas during coffee breaks, and lunch breaks, and beer breaks after work... 

Opportunities fall out of those added discussions...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

It’s absolutely a different experience, but I have to say that when I have an hour long meeting 30 minutes away at 0730, it’s really nice to wake up at 0715, do my Zoom meeting, then have breakfast and get on with the rest of my day.

My guess is that the “new normal” won’t replace in-person meetings and visits, but a lot of the stuff that you don’t need to be present for will be done remotely.

I really like my accountant, but he lives in another state and I’ve never met him in person. Taxes this year went exactly like last year and it was a seamless experience. I don’t miss going to the accountants office at all.

I think some good changes will come about from this. 

[aviatoreb]

Just now, ilovecornfields said:

It’s absolutely a different experience, but I have to say that when I have an hour long meeting 30 minutes away at 0730, it’s really nice to wake up at 0715, do my Zoom meeting, then have breakfast and get on with the rest of my day.

My guess is that the “new normal” won’t replace in-person meetings and visits, but a lot of the stuff that you don’t need to be present for will be done remotely.

I really like my accountant, but he lives in another state and I’ve never met him in person. Taxes this year went exactly like last year and it was a seamless experience. I don’t miss going to the accountants office at all.

I think some good changes will come about from this. 

I have been doing Skype meetings for years - for certain kinds of scientific meetings these are useful.  They are the kind of meetings where 30 minutes of coordination or otherwise minor details need to be discussed. But some meetings require intense one-on-one (or a few ) meeting intensely for a day or two or three to really dig in on a problem - the kind of meeting where I go to another university and we clear our schedules and work for 16 hours including work-talking through lunch, dinner, and coffee - the whole waking day - and we really barnstorm through some technical obstacle - zoom/skype has never and will never replace that.  Another kind of meeting - where 100 to 500 scientists show up at a meeting venue and share results, meet each other and generally learn and see what is going on in the field - what is trending - who is pushing on new concepts - run into people in elevators, many many brief meetings scheduled and unscheduled through the day, parallel presentations etc, over 3 to 5 days - these kinds of meetings also don't really work on zoom even though I have now sort of been in on one.  In way it would be called a success in that it came off, but in reality it was an utter failure.  No one got anything out of it, learned anything, or even stayed away.  It is VERY hard to stay attentive through a 12 hour day nonstop on zoom with 50 people on board - for 3 days - believe me - I have suffered through that this past April.

[ilovecornfields]

15 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I have been doing Skype meetings for years - for certain kinds of scientific meetings these are useful.  They are the kind of meetings where 30 minutes of coordination or otherwise minor details need to be discussed. But some meetings require intense one-on-one (or a few ) meeting intensely for a day or two or three to really dig in on a problem - the kind of meeting where I go to another university and we clear our schedules and work for 16 hours including work-talking through lunch, dinner, and coffee - the whole waking day - and we really barnstorm through some technical obstacle - zoom/skype has never and will never replace that.  Another kind of meeting - where 100 to 500 scientists show up at a meeting venue and share results, meet each other and generally learn and see what is going on in the field - what is trending - who is pushing on new concepts - run into people in elevators, many many brief meetings scheduled and unscheduled through the day, parallel presentations etc, over 3 to 5 days - these kinds of meetings also don't really work on zoom even though I have now sort of been in on one.  In way it would be called a success in that it came off, but in reality it was an utter failure.  No one got anything out of it, learned anything, or even stayed away.  It is VERY hard to stay attentive through a 12 hour day nonstop on zoom with 50 people on board - for 3 days - believe me - I have suffered through that this past April.

Totally agree. Time and place for everything. Collaboration is definitely more challenging when people aren’t in the same room and the non-meeting interactions can be more valuable than some of the meetings.

I’m on several hospital and county committees and for a lot of the meetings I need to “be there” but I usually have a very little to say (unless someone says something truly outrageous, then I have a lot to say...) Let’s just say that I would not be sad if most of my meetings continued as Zoom meetings and in-person meetings were reserved for the situations you described above.

[aviatoreb]

Just now, ilovecornfields said:

Totally agree. Time and place for everything. Collaboration is definitely more challenging when people aren’t in the same room and the non-meeting interactions can be more valuable than some of the meetings.

I’m on several hospital and county committees and for a lot of the meetings I need to “be there” but I usually have a very little to say (unless someone says something truly outrageous, then I have a lot to say...) Let’s just say that I would not be sad if most of my meetings continued as Zoom meetings and in-person meetings were reserved for the situations you described above.

Yah - we are agreeing with each other.

I was just saying - it is cutting off entirely one of the most important functions which is intensely working with people.  It does allow us to do the more superficial kinds of working with each other.

Separate item - working at home nonstop for over two months now.  1) I am getting a lot done -from certain categories of the work I do but some categories are totally nonexistent.  So for the bean counters .. its not all good esp for the long term health of being able to keep up with the field into the future. 2) I am having a hard time working on a schedule. I am loosing my sense of time.  Sometimes I work on something with 45 min to go until a scheduled meeting and then I look up and go and get in deep and then - oops I am 5 min late!  Or even worse, more than once, I look up and go oops I am an hour and 5 min late!  I seem to loose an hour here and there but mostly its all good I am getting a lot done and working intensely (despite those who see me on here - I get on here during those moments I get stuck and I need to "step away" for a moment).  The other day I logged onto a meeting 5 min early feeling pretty proud of myself, then no one else showed up...then I realized I was a day and 5 min early.  Ok ok, I have pulled that one in regular life too.  Show up to a meeting room a day and 5 min early.  Or a week and 5 min early.

[DXB]

My experience with zoom, bluejeans etc during this period has changed them in my mind from being quirky cumbersome fallback alternatives to meeting in person to now being a critical resource and even a preferred tool.  As time goes on,  our skills at using these tools are being honed by repetition.  I'm now surprisingly finding it just as effective as meeting in person not only for the purpose of getting a job done but also for building personal relationships. In some ways, it now feels clearly superior because of the convenience factor.  We will use it to avoid walking across my work campus even after the pandemic is over - forget about flying across the country.

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, DXB said:

My experience with zoom, bluejeans etc during this period has changed them in my mind from being quirky cumbersome fallback alternatives to meeting in person to now being a critical resource and even a preferred tool.  As time goes on,  our skills at using these tools are being honed by repetition.  I'm now surprisingly finding it just as effective as meeting in person not only for the purpose of getting a job done but also for building personal relationships. In some ways, it now feels clearly superior because of the convenience factor.  We will use it to avoid walking across my work campus even after the pandemic is over - forget about flying across the country.

I am describing where it is inferior when what is needed is a 10 hour nonstop meeting.  You are saying it is equal or even superior, but do you mean in that setting?  Or for the briefer meetings.

Actually I forgot about bluejeans.  The national science foundation uses that platform, for panel reviews which while they last 10 hours, for maybe 2 days each, those consist of essentially 15 min meetings (but same people) over and over reviewing in 15 min spots each proposal and writing reports.  It is useful in that setting and does save traveling to DC.  Not so much fun but it is fun to be home and also save the travel.  I would call the venue sufficient.  And sufficient is good enough when not needing to travel and live out of a suitcase one more time.  I have done those many times, last time being this past Feb - before the sh&t hit the fan.

Silly me - I just now realized why they call it bluejeans - its because you can work at home in your blue jeans.  haha - but I always wear blue jeans whether I go to work or not.  I have like 6 pairs of identical cut and branded jeans and I just rotate them as the washing falls.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

Silly me - I just now realized why they call it bluejeans - its because you can work at home in your blue jeans.  haha - but I always wear blue jeans whether I go to work or not.  I have like 6 pairs of identical cut and branded jeans and I just rotate them as the washing falls.

Having worn Dockers to work since 1994, it was nice to change jobs last year and get back into my jeans! Pretty much the same thing, medical device manufacturing, on and off the cleanroom production floor. But now in comfortable, durable denim. Never had customer contact, still don't, and now no need to dress like I might.  

As for "working from home," I've managed to plan two whole days of that this spring, one of which went off the rails and ran until 2330. At least I didn't have to drive home afterwards . . . .

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think some good changes will come about from this. 

Agreed!  Here’s an example: my 91 year-old mother has a new iPad and has learned how to FaceTime with it to “see” her children/grandchildren/great-grandchildren. Only problem has been that she’s mostly deaf!

I admit to being a glass-half-full guy who thinks most conspiracy theories are laughable.  And I’m not talking about economics/freedoms/personal liberties.  I have no idea what’s going to come of any of that.

But like Billy Joel said, “The good old days weren’t always good and tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems.”

[1964-M20E]

I worked 2 weeks from home before being called back to the office.  I can do probably 90% of my work form home.   I could go to the office 2 or 3 days a week to handle the other 10%.  My company has point blank said we will not be a work from home company and this is fine by me.

Obviously there are those who believe that if they can't see you you are not working even to the point of making comments about closed office doors.   I like being a the office more than being home.

It would be nice to see more private aircraft travel as a result of this but then big companies think flying one's own plane is akin to walking a tight rope across the grand canyon with the wind blown 60kts but driving you personal vehicle is perfectly fine.

[DXB]

19 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I am describing where it is inferior when what is needed is a 10 hour nonstop meeting.  You are saying it is equal or even superior, but do you mean in that setting?  Or for the briefer meetings.

For instance, i just sat on a grant review study section with a dozen or so people from across the country that was changed from in person to teleconference because of COVID. It ran 8hrs/day for two consecutive days.  I've done these study sections in person and by video in the past and found the latter to be awkward, cumbersome, and lacking in the networking benefits that come from meeting in person.  But this time, I think all the participants had become much more sophisticated with using the format because of recent daily practice, and a high level of discussion was easy to maintain throughout the meeting.  I don't see any of us wanting to ever do an in person grant study section again.  

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, DXB said:

For instance, i just sat on a grant review study section with a dozen or so people from across the country that was changed from in person to teleconference because of COVID. It ran 8hrs/day for two consecutive days.  I've done these study sections in person and by video in the past and found the latter to be awkward, cumbersome, and lacking in the networking benefits that come from meeting in person.  But this time, I think all the participants had become much more sophisticated with using the format because of recent daily practice, and a high level of discussion was easy to maintain throughout the meeting.  I don't see any of us wanting to ever do an in person grant study section again.  

Right - that sounds comparable to when I have done national science foundation panels, which consist of about a dozen scientists reviewing proposals on certain focused topics.  These are procedural discussions.  They work ok in the remote settings and I have done them in years past before all this, as I said in long days on bluejeans.  They aren't fun but workable.  

The thing that I think works least well is where two people, three people, aren't working off a pre-set procedure based meeting, but rather brain storm, work, really roll up sleeves together.

[Steve W]

Things I miss about the office when I work from home: noisy coworkers, noisy HVAC systems, poor temperature control, a view of other concrete buildings, cubicles, way too bright fluorescent lights, hellish commutes.

Admittedly I've been working from home for years now. And except for when a customer needs me on-site for a few days I have no intention to ever go back to an office on a regular basis.

[Browncbr1]

I would think there would be a bunch of md90s and the likes for sale from the airlines soon.  I’m guessing they would keep the nice emberairs and unload the Boeing’s. 

[afward]

17 hours ago, Steve W said:

Things I miss about the office when I work from home: noisy coworkers, noisy HVAC systems, poor temperature control, a view of other concrete buildings, cubicles, way too bright fluorescent lights, hellish commutes.

Admittedly I've been working from home for years now. And except for when a customer needs me on-site for a few days I have no intention to ever go back to an office on a regular basis.

Since Feb. 2011 for me...  And I agree: Full-time remote is now a job requirement for anywhere I might apply.  The benefits far outweigh the limitations, especially in a remote-savvy company where the negatives are actively mitigated (regular team meetings - including for non-work purposes, and an intentional "we trust you" approach to management).

Now if I could keep the wife/kids from messing with the thermostat!

[aviatoreb]

13 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

I would think there would be a bunch of md90s and the likes for sale from the airlines soon.  I’m guessing they would keep the nice emberairs and unload the Boeing’s. 

I'm holding out for a nice A380.  I read that Air France is dumping theirs - fire sale on the big airbus!

[GeeBee]

My brother was head of strategic planning for a large office furniture manufacturer who among other things was the worlds largest and best maker of "telepresence suites". You know, the kind on which you see POTUS talk to the space aliens . Their firm analysis is while telepresence has a place, there will always be need for travel and personal meetings.Feelings of trust and other social interactions are difficult to derive in telepresence. For this reason, they kept and expanded their conference furniture business. Interestingly the most critical personal meetings are the first after a "cold call" or "inquiring customer".