six gear collapses & gear ups in one week

[kortopates]

Wow! No new Mooney incidents or accidents posted for this past weekend! 

[carusoam]

We need a chalk board... to mark the successful days since the last occurrence...

We have one week in the records...

Lets keep it up!

Best regards,

-a-

[larrynimmo]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

We need a chalk board... to mark the successful days since the last occurrence...

We have one week in the records...

Lets keep it up!

Best regards,

-a-

No, let’s not “keep it up” ...instead make sure we “drop the gear”!

[EricJ]

I don't know whether everybody can see this but it's been going around on Facebook.   It's a voice-over, but it's still funny.
 

 

[aviatoreb]

47 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I don't know whether everybody can see this but it's been going around on Facebook.   It's a voice-over, but it's still funny.
 

 

Oh that was depressing.

Good thing the guy in the right seat didn't mis-hear the "flaps up command" as "poke yourself in the eye with a pair of scissors".

[EricJ]

FWIW, I think that was just a nose wheel collapse that somebody put an entertaining voice-over on top of, exploiting the usual fear of grabbing gear instead of flaps on roll-out.

 

[cliffy]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:11 PM, kortopates said:

Seriously -that 231 that taxied off the runway into a ditch at night is still sitting there?!?! I assume it couldn’t have been insured. That is so sad to hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

YUP Still here and paying tie down every month. 

No insurance but word is that it had a new motor. 

Window and doors open to the weather. 

[kortopates]

49 minutes ago, cliffy said:

YUP Still here and paying tie down every month. 

No insurance but word is that it had a new motor. 

Window and doors open to the weather. 

What a shame Cliff, I am sure its value has only declined greatly after all these years of being essentially abandoned on the ramp like so many we've seen. Maybe some mechanic will hopefully rescue it by purchasing to restore to resell some day before it's to late. Thankfully it is in a very dry climate at Page. 

[cliffy]

No restoration possible as e EVERY panel on the airplane is bent  wings, tail feathers, fuselage, gear, prop blades loose in the hub. Not much salvageable. 

[kortopates]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

I don't know whether everybody can see this but it's been going around on Facebook.   It's a voice-over, but it's still funny.
 

 

Here I thought it was another validation for all us Mooney instructors that won't do T & G's in the Mooney!

But funny it is, except for the fact it looks like some metal was bent in the production of this video.

Really think it was the nose gear? seeing it go sideways I assumed one of the main first. 

Glad I only got to see the video!

[kortopates]

Just now, cliffy said:

No restoration possible as e EVERY panel on the airplane is bent  wings, tail feathers, fuselage, gear, prop blades loose in the hub. Not much salvageable. 

Maybe I am not recalling the proper incident/accident, but I thought this one was a guy that landed at night and while taxing got lost and taxied off into a ditch? Is this the one? If so, this sure sounds like much more damage than some off-roading unless taxiing was more like falling down something...?

[cliffy]

No he was taxiing out from the ramp and crossed 3 yellow lines and taxied into a cement water  diversion ditch about 5 feet deep. He was moving fairly fast as the prop hit the far side of the ditch. If you google KPGA and go for the overhead picture mode you'll see the 6 helicopter landing pads at the center of the airport  He taxied east across these and into the cement ditch parallel to and just west of the main taxiway

[kortopates]

7 minutes ago, cliffy said:

No he was taxiing out from the ramp and crossed 3 yellow lines and taxied into a cement water  diversion ditch about 5 feet deep. He was moving fairly fast as the prop hit the far side of the ditch. If you google KPGA and go for the overhead picture mode you'll see the 6 helicopter landing pads at the center of the airport  He taxied east across these and into the cement ditch parallel to and just west of the main taxiway

Ah, thanks for that. I brought it up on Google Earth and see the cement ditch with some water in the south end.  After ignoring the lines, from probably going too fast,  looks like its all similar surface till he hit the ditch. I can get the idea of how that ditch destroyed the AC by the time they had it pulled back out. Ouch!! 

Thanks for the details Cliff!

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Really think it was the nose gear? seeing it go sideways I assumed one of the main first. 

The nose drops quite a bit and it doesn't come back up, so it looks to me like a nose gear collapse.

[philiplane]

Only four days from the previous Mooney gear incident, an M20E had the gear collapse on landing in Provo Utah on July 28th.

There were 2213 Mooney gear incidents from 1978-2019. 

There were 43 Mooney gear incidents in all of 2019.

There will be more than that this year at this pace.

 

Contrast that with 1112 Piper Comanche (single engine) incidents from 1978-2019.

And 2734 Beech 33, 35, & 36 incidents over the same time span. 

And, to contrast with a hydraulic gear system, the Piper PA23 Apache/Aztec line reported only 624 incidents over the same span. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by philiplane

[ArtVandelay]

I’d like to know how people get slowed down without dropping the gear, one of these days I will try it ... minus the actual landing part :-)

[Bob - S50]

38 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’d like to know how people get slowed down without dropping the gear, one of these days I will try it ... minus the actual landing part :-)

The only way I can think of that they MIGHT be able to do that is if they are guilty of a drug in final.  And it would have to be seriously low.  Even then, I don't think I could do it either.  Maybe with full flaps and no gear.  But if they are successful, they have two chances to make a gear up landing.

1).  Forgetting to put the gear down before they land.

2).  Unintentional landing short of the runway when a downdraft drives them into the ground before they have time to react.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’d like to know how people get slowed down without dropping the gear, one of these days I will try it ... minus the actual landing part :-)

You can maintain speed or glideslope but not both. On speed leaves you high, on slope makes you rather fast. But for a VFR approach into somewhere unfamiliar, you may not notice.

When RDU vectored me 20nm past the airport before turning me inbound to land, still at 7500 msl, I was much more worried about losing altitude. Noticed the gear still up on my short final floor indicator check. Made a nice landing, though! Didn't start kicking myself until after a long, long taxi to parking and shutting down--it was safe then. 

[cliffy]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’d like to know how people get slowed down without dropping the gear, one of these days I will try it ... minus the actual landing part :-)

Pull off the power   :-)    The engine does idle doesn't it? 

[Bob - S50]

Just now, cliffy said:

Pull off the power   :-)    The engine does idle doesn't it? 

Saw the grin, but ya, not without a warning horn.  It's never a good idea to pull the power and let the horn sound for an extended period of time because we become habituated to it, so it is no longer effective as a deterrent.

[0TreeLemur]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’d like to know how people get slowed down without dropping the gear, one of these days I will try it ... minus the actual landing part :-)

I use the gear as speed brakes.  I used to think that it would be really hard do land a Mooney gear up because when I was new to the plane I couldn't seem to slow it down without lowering the gear.   True, it is more difficult to slow down without the gear down, but not impossible.  Oddly enough, as I have gained experience in energy management in a Mooney, I envision the possibility of being inside the FAF without the gear down.  Several things would raise warnings other than the gear warning horn such as lower MAP and increased sensitivity of speed to pitch.  We're all one major distraction away from that test.

With the older C with such a low Vfe, it is kind of awkward to get it that slow in a descent without the gear hanging out.  Not such an issue with the newer Mooneys with higher Vfe.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I use the gear as speed brakes.  I used to think that it would be really hard do land a Mooney gear up because when I was new to the plane I couldn't seem to slow it down without lowering the gear.   True, it is more difficult to slow down without the gear down, but not impossible.  Oddly enough, as I have gained experience in energy management in a Mooney, I envision the possibility of being inside the FAF without the gear down.  Several things would raise warnings other than the gear warning horn such as lower MAP and increased sensitivity of speed to pitch.  We're all one major distraction away from that test.

With the older C with such a low Vfe, it is kind of awkward to get it that slow in a descent without the gear hanging out.  Not such an issue with the newer Mooneys with higher Vfe.

I think there is probably a number of these gear ups that are directly caused by distraction. I have a few friends that I fly with that I need to remind of my sterile cockpit policy either by saying "please shut up" or "please shut the f%$k up" when my polite first attempt doesn't work. 

For those of us who fly with higher flap speeds, it is pretty easy to get to VFo, drop the flaps and you are slow enough that you might notice the missing gear drag.

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, philiplane said:

Only four days from the previous Mooney gear incident, an M20E had the gear collapse on landing in Provo Utah on July 28th.

There were 2213 Mooney gear incidents from 1978-2019. 

There were 43 Mooney gear incidents in all of 2019.

There will be more than that this year at this pace.

 

Contrast that with 1112 Piper Comanche (single engine) incidents from 1978-2019.

And 2734 Beech 33, 35, & 36 incidents over the same time span. 

And, to contrast with a hydraulic gear system, the Piper PA23 Apache/Aztec line reported only 624 incidents over the same span. 

Have you quantified this with the number of aircraft built? And also by the number of registered (and maybe flying) planes of each type? Be curious what the denominators are.

[Hank]

18 minutes ago, Marauder said:

For those of us who fly with higher flap speeds, it is pretty easy to get to VFo, drop the flaps and you are slow enough that you might notice the missing gear drag.

See my post above. My flap speed is 125 mph, gear speed is 120 mph. It will hold proper speed or glideslope without the gear, but not both . . . .

Maybe your heavy F won't. I was solo, no bags and just under half tanks (in the low 20-s gals).

[irishpilot]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Have you quantified this with the number of aircraft built? And also by the number of registered (and maybe flying) planes of each type? Be curious what the denominators are.

That's really the only way to compare the rates per aircraft type. Another way is to divide the accidents per total flying hours and then show it as a rate. That being said, those are a lot of gear incidents. Thanks for posting this data.