Garmin 275

[dooleypster]

Has anyone put the new Garmin 275s in their panel yet?  If so, what did you think of being free from the vacuum system, and how useful were the 275s?

[Rwsavory]

 

[carusoam]

As far as vacuum free goes...

Many around here have gone all glass...

• Happy to not have planned vac outages or swapping the pump every 500hrs...
• UL improvement is a big number because of the weight of vac systems...
• Everyone has second and third AIs, the TCs are becoming a thing of the past...

PP thoughts only,

-a-

[louisut]

16 hours ago, dooleypster said:

Has anyone put the new Garmin 275s in their panel yet?  If so, what did you think of being free from the vacuum system, and how useful were the 275s?

We're still dialing ours in, but so far so good. They're very capable instruments, and when two are installed as an AI and HSI, they're also primary replacements for the rest of a standard six-pack (airspeed, altimeter, TC, VSI). We chose them we weren't ready to replace the autopilot or upgrade to full glass yet. I think the only other alternative in a similar price range would have been dual Aspens, but that would have cost more for an unfamiliar UI.

On the vacuum system, good riddance. No more $1.5k-$3k AI and HSI overhauls or periodic replacements of the vacuum pump. Standby vacuum also goes. Speed brakes and the step are commonly vacuum-actuated, so those will need to be electric.

Only downside so far is cost. They cost more than G5s, but that's not a totally fair comparison because they can do much more than a G5. Also, though support is expected later this year, for now the GFC500 is not officially compatible. Currently it only supports the GFC600, which is not STCed for M20s. If for whatever that promised support falls through, we'll be in a jam.

Edited May 8, 2020 by louisut

[dooleypster]

Yup, I feel your pain.  I'm going this way to rid the vacuum system, replace a failing HSI, and happily, they say these are compatible with my still functioning perfectly Century 2000 autopilot.  When the autopilot goes, it will be a huge AMU outlay to replace.  At my age, I'm sure it will be worth it.  Watch carefully, when I can no longer fly for whatever reason, this is an airplane you will want to buy.....sorry, not a 231.  What dial in issues have you had?

 

[flysamo]

installing 2 Garmin 275's into Ovation, should be ready to fly in 3 weeks, looking forward to the Pixel generation and deleting the Vacuum generation, one of main items we will be looking at is how well the KFC 150 works with the Garmin 275, and how much weight difference there is before and after. Nest question is what auto pilot system to install, and how much. replace existing servos or change out servos. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by flysamo
added info

[louisut]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:54 PM, dooleypster said:

Yup, I feel your pain.  I'm going this way to rid the vacuum system, replace a failing HSI, and happily, they say these are compatible with my still functioning perfectly Century 2000 autopilot.  When the autopilot goes, it will be a huge AMU outlay to replace.  At my age, I'm sure it will be worth it.  Watch carefully, when I can no longer fly for whatever reason, this is an airplane you will want to buy.....sorry, not a 231.  What dial in issues have you had?

 

The GPSS tracking isn't where we want it yet. Out of the box it did a decent job--no better or worse than before with the nav radio tracking. It's good enough to fly a coupled approach down to LPV minimums, but it'll wander laterally up to 3/4-dot deflection during the approach. We think it could do better. 

The shop adjusted the gain on the GI 275, and though it helped, it's still not flying like it's on rails. We're looking at the autopilot computer next. There are a couple potentiometers that can be adjusted in there. The roll centering can be adjusted on the ground, but it's faster and more accurate to adjust the bank angle limits in flight.

Digital autopilot would be great. The quote was $22k though, so we're going to wait until this one breaks.

Edited May 11, 2020 by louisut

[hypertech]

@flysamo if you haven't decided what autopilot, you need to do a stop work and figure that out.  Right now, I don't think the 275 can connect to the GFC 500.  So, if the GFC 500 is on the table, you need G5s.  Not to mention the G5s are significantly cheaper than the 275.  The big feature on the 275, to me, is that it can drive the existing autopilot.  But, if you are going to do the autopilot anyway, its lost that advantage and then its just expensive.

I had this discussion with my installer and decided to go with the G5s and use the difference in price towards the GFC500.  The end result is a little more expensive than the 275s but every servo and every wire will be brand new and it will have all the modern auto pilot features.

Edited May 11, 2020 by hypertech

[flyboy0681]

52 minutes ago, hypertech said:

@flysamo if you haven't decided what autopilot, you need to do a stop work and figure that out.  Right now, I don't think the 275 can connect to the GFC 500.  So, if the GFC 500 is on the table, you need G5s.  Not to mention the G5s are significantly cheaper than the 275.  The big feature on the 275, to me, is that it can drive the existing autopilot.  But, if you are going to do the autopilot anyway, its lost that advantage and then its just expensive.

I had this discussion with my installer and decided to go with the G5s and use the difference in price towards the GFC500.  The end result is a little more expensive than the 275s but every servo and every wire will be brand new and it will have all the modern auto pilot features.

What is it about the G5 AI architecture that prevents Garmin from producing an interface to analog autopilots such as the KAP 150?

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

What is it about the G5 AI architecture that prevents Garmin from producing an interface to analog autopilots such as the KAP 150?

I presume it is Garmin themselves that is preventing such an interface.  I presume it is a marketing decision that they want to sell the more expensive GI275 and don't want that to be outpriced and outsold by their own cheaper product as competition.  Its a shame.  I bet a G5+interface would be an amazing seller.

[flyboy0681]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I presume it is Garmin themselves that is preventing such an interface.  I presume it is a marketing decision that they want to sell the more expensive GI275 and don't want that to be outpriced and outsold by their own cheaper product as competition.  Its a shame.  I bet a G5+interface would be an amazing seller.

Not sure I entirely buy this response as the G5 has been on the market for a while now and would imply that the G275 was being worked on at the same time.

Buy you are correct, an interface would make the G5 an amazing seller.

[tmo]

I'm with EB, but out of emoticons for the day ;-)

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Not sure I entirely buy this response as the G5 has been on the market for a while now and would imply that the G275 was being worked on at the same time.

Buy you are correct, an interface would make the G5 an amazing seller.

My guess is there was some meeting in Garmin corporate headquarters, which is in the cave right across the hall from the bat-cave by the way, where it was discussed that rather than make an interface for the G5, that they decided to make an entire GI275 instead and with that they could squeeze out of us a few extra thousand.

[PJClark]

Well FWIW, I doubt there's much of a conspiracy at Garmin.  The G5 has been out there for what...3 years? It was never designed to have Syn Vis or any of the other myriad capes the 275s can have.  It was a simple, direct way to put a very inexpensive glass display into a lot of cockpits (my guess only, of course).

Moore's law at work...plus I suspect gradually increasing "comfort" at the FAA, and the need to continue to innovate to keep market share.

G5 is perfect for what it does.  I think the GI275 is by design a mid-point product, nicely niched in between a G3X or Aspen and the G5. Good idea, good marketing.

$.02

[aviatoreb]

Just now, PJClark said:

Well FWIW, I doubt there's much of a conspiracy at Garmin.  The G5 has been out there for what...3 years? It was never designed to have Syn Vis or any of the other myriad capes the 275s can have.  It was a simple, direct way to put a very inexpensive glass display into a lot of cockpits (my guess only, of course).

Moore's law at work...plus I suspect gradually increasing "comfort" at the FAA, and the need to continue to innovate to keep market share.

G5 is perfect for what it does.  I think the GI275 is by design a mid-point product, nicely niched in between a G3X or Aspen and the G5. Good idea, good marketing.

$.02

Well - conspiracy is a strong word for what I am sure is a shrewd and good business decision on their part.  I stand by my assertion that they certainly considered adding a driver box option to the G5 to drive legacy autopilots, as not shrewd as it would compete against their developing (at the time) GI275.

I wonder if it is plausible for someone to after-market a driver box to do just that.

[flyboy0681]

Ok, I concede. I was wrong in my statement.

 

[aviatoreb]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

Ok, I concede. I was wrong in my statement.

 

Yay!  We win!  Wait... what we’re talking about again?

[kpaul]

The GI275 was a clean sheet design that took extra time to make it to the market.  It arrived about 3 years later than Garmin was planning...thanks FAA.

 

Meanwhile, the FAA made it easier for experimental avionics to be certified for certified aircraft, aka G5, so Garmin got them released while finishing the certificationfor the 275...thanks FAA.

 

[carusoam]

I threw a spare happy face on Erik’s post for TMO....   

Just trying to help out...

-a-

[aviatoreb]

52 minutes ago, carusoam said:

I threw a spare happy face on Erik’s post for TMO....   

Just trying to help out...

-a-

Thanks!  We can can always use a few extra happy faces!  :-)

[dooleypster]

For me, it was easy.  The G275 was the only thing that would interface with my Century2000 autopilot.  I know, its a very old autopilot, but it still works great and I could save a bunch of AMUs for now.  At my age, the new autopilot would never add significantly to my value in the plane, only for the next guy.  The G5 is a nice instrument, but the interface issue coupled with the extra things a G275 can do made it worth the expense...... I think.  I could be wrong again.....