Has anyone looked at Earth X batteries?

[aviatoreb]

55 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Hey Buddy, get in line !

Let's compromise.  I'll split it with you.

E

[carusoam]

Let’s see....

1) New tech...

2) lighter...

3) More Temp sensitive...

4) more Charge rate limitations...

5) tough to put under the cowl because of heat...

6) Tough to put in tail because more Charlie weights would be needed...

 

This really makes sense for somebody that is running out Charlie weights to remove...

7) add AC... take out a Charlie...

8) add FIKI... take out a Charlie...

9) add O2... take out a Charlie...

10) add MT composite prop... balance with a lighter battery...

11) add Big G panel... balance with a second lighter battery...

12) Essentially, to gain something from the lighter battery... a significant redesign of the WnB of the plane may be required...  I think I may have outlined how much adjusting the balance is going to cost...  a lot more than the savings of just a single battery...

14) Fractional MS Shares of a LIVPT sound really interesting.... 12 owners, 12 months, we start today... 12 years before completion...

15) I skipped unlucky 13 for an unknown reason...   

16) a Forever-turbine... sounds pretty interesting... this is going to take some financial fortitude X 12... Transition training X 12... and a giant insurance bill X 12...  I Think we can do it...   
 

17) Unfortunately, it is Weight, AND balance... that keeps our planes aloft... long term...

18) It will take a case by case solution to get the full value out of a lighter battery...

19) Over voltage protection is a late entry to the list of challenges...

20) my ship has a red light for that... and a CB/switch to be manually turned off...

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... going to search the trade-a-plane ads....

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

There is an article on EarthX in the latest Aviation Consumer. While the LIFe battery will not catch fire, it will smoke toxic smoke. 

I can tell you a fellow who borrowed my hangar in July 2019 with a Glasair had an EarthX go south on him. As a result of total electrical failure and a dual electronic ignition set up the airplane was a total loss and he sustained serious injury.

 

[carusoam]

GB,

That’s a lot of eggs in one basket, no? (First: Sorry to hear about the accident)

two electronic mags with only one battery...

Some electronic mags can generate their own electricity for their operation...

a battery also works as a buffer for the single alternator...

If the battery croaks, there are a couple of things that can make the alternator not have any output... one of the magnets loses it’s magnetism...(?)

So if going dual electronic mag in a Mooney... if possible...

Good to have two... 

• independent batteries...
• independent alternators...
• independent electrical busses...

or...

• At least one mag that can generate its own electricity...

 

We are initially seeing really good benefits from having one electronic mag around MS...

Having a second electronic mag definitely comes with extra challenges...

That sure is a great learning experience shared...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited May 1, 2020 by carusoam

[GeeBee]

I would whole heartedly agree, it is a lot of eggs in one cart. I guess that is why they call them "Experimental" but it sure is not how I would go. I don't even think I would go with two batteries,  two alternators and two electronic mags unless they were independent bus isolated. I've been around a bus fault and it is not fun because everything lost for good now matter how you feed it.

To be fair,  all batteries can overheat and blow up. I had an AGM blow on my boat as a result of my granddaughter playing at the helm and leaving the big bilge pump on the hot bus on. So despite the master being off, the battery became depleted. When the charger tried to keep up with it, it blew. The great thing about an AGM when it blows is there is no smoke, no acid, no nothing, just a separated case. The AGM battery has the softest "failure" of any battery out there which is why you will have to talk long and hard to get me out of a Concorde for my Mooney.

 

 

 

[carusoam]

GB,

Thanks for the reminder...

I stopped to think about the buss... and didn’t get back to it...

Some Mooneys use a critical buss to make things easy to shed un-needed loads...

With a two battery system... either battery can be selected...

With a two alternator system... either or both can be selected...

 

Now... a relay failure supplying the critical buss... or something grounding the buss itself...

Makes those battery powered AIs start looking good... 

Partial thoughts of a PP, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[GeeBee]

The present Mooney essential bus system IMHO is not adequate design for critical hardware like ignition. First of all the STC on these new electronic units  require wiring direct to the hot bus. For a dual battery Mooney the only safe way if you had two electronic units would be to have two isolated hot busses, one off each battery powering a respective ignition unit. I have a similar set up on my boat where three individual bilge pumps are powered off triple batteries with triple independent hot busses. I can tie. them together manually or separate them.  

[tmo]

On 4/30/2020 at 11:21 PM, aviatoreb said:

Let's compromise.  I'll split it with you.

I thought there were two planes...

[Oscar Avalle]

I am looking into the option, but the battery seems to be much smaller than the Lead one. How to you manage that? Also it has only 15Amp/h instead of 25... So less juice... 

But the weight savings are signficant.

[Browncbr1]

I looked at the earthX battery and bought another Concorde 35axc.  I think the earthX might be better suited for sailplanes

[FloridaMan]

I carry an EarthX booster pack and a plug-n-jump in my Rocket for emergency jump starts. 

[Bigdaddie]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:42 AM, FloridaMan said:

I carry an EarthX booster pack and a plug-n-jump in my Rocket for emergency jump starts. 

I carry a small motorcycle LiFepo4 battery when I go on trips for the jump start.  Also works great if I have the avionics on for extended periods without the engine running.

[Fly Boomer]

32 minutes ago, Bigdaddie said:

I carry a small motorcycle LiFepo4 battery when I go on trips for the jump start.  Also works great if I have the avionics on for extended periods without the engine running.

Hve you started your engine with it?

[A64Pilot]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:38 PM, GeeBee said:

There is an article on EarthX in the latest Aviation Consumer. While the LIFe battery will not catch fire, it will smoke toxic smoke. 

I can tell you a fellow who borrowed my hangar in July 2019 with a Glasair had an EarthX go south on him. As a result of total electrical failure and a dual electronic ignition set up the airplane was a total loss and he sustained serious injury.

 

One of the local guys had a scale P-51 with I believe a GM small block LS motor, he crashed due to a blown fuse in the ignition system. I think it may have been a fusible link because I don’t think there is a fuse, but there are usable links.

I think a LifePo4 battery can burn but it’s very difficult to make it do so, but any battery can have a thermal runaway even a lead acid battery, and even lead acid batteries have rarely been known to explode, from hydrogen gas.

A lifepo4 battery should be vented so the gasses aren’t an issue.

Our lead acid batteries are in a metal box and vented for a reason, do the same with a LifePo4 battery.

My Maules battery was vented, but not in a metal box, but even my 46 Cessna ha a battery box with a lid.

I’ll get a LifePo4 battery if it becomes as cheap and easy as a lead acid battery.

[Bigdaddie]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:50 AM, Fly Boomer said:

Hve you started your engine with it?

I generally just use it when the master is on for prolonged periods.  I'll give it try and see if it starts when I go out to the hanger.

[Fly Boomer]

18 hours ago, Bigdaddie said:

I generally just use it when the master is on for prolonged periods.  I'll give it try and see if it starts when I go out to the hanger.

I just wonder if a motorcycle- size battery has what it takes to start the engine.  My Prius has a motorcycle-size 12-volt battery, but about the only thing it does is boot the computer.  After the computer is up, the car can power everything from the traction battery.

[A64Pilot]

20 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I just wonder if a motorcycle- size battery has what it takes to start the engine.  My Prius has a motorcycle-size 12-volt battery, but about the only thing it does is boot the computer.  After the computer is up, the car can power everything from the traction battery.

The LifePo4 batteries probably can, they can tolerate huge discharge currents for a short time. Also they have less voltage drop, but some of this is also what do you mean by motorcycle battery, there are tiny ones and some pretty big ones.

[vorlon1]

I talked with these people this summer at OshKosh, and they have STC's for those of us lucky enough to have the batteries in the back. Not so with the others. The company (confirmed again just this week) indicated the FAA were slow-rolling them because they (the FAA) didn't know how to deal with those planes with batteries in the front.

At about 5lbs., these are light indeed.

 

[Fly Boomer]

On 1/3/2023 at 2:43 PM, A64Pilot said:

The LifePo4 batteries probably can, they can tolerate huge discharge currents for a short time. Also they have less voltage drop, but some of this is also what do you mean by motorcycle battery, there are tiny ones and some pretty big ones.

I just meant "smaller than a car battery".

[ttflyer]

We had one of these in the RV-6 we owned before the Mooney.  Can't say I'd recommend them.  They are light, but the issue nobody talks about is the charge rate.  After start, the battery would draw 60+ amps from the alternator for about a minute.  Huge stress on the alternator.  The airplane when through two alternators in four years.  Alternators aren't cheap...

My 2 cents....