Mild hail or Gear Up?

[MICKEY]

Looking at two long body Mooneys.  Planning on possibly buying one. 

All in great shape with similar upgrades.  

First one with a Gear up 10 years ago, and logs show professional and reputable repair. And 10 years and 1000 hrs since incident.

The second with minor hail on ailerons and back of fuselage otherwise normal.

Is there a reason I should stay away from either of them?  

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by MICKEY

[bradp]

Not necessarily. 10 yr from a GUL repaired properly is no big deal. 
One might question the reason not to have the hail repaired / ailerons reskinned.  
 

[Tim Jodice]

If everything else was exactly the same I would pick the one that has been geared up. But it is splitting hairs to me, if the hail damaged one had something that didn't add much if any to market value but was important to me I would buy that one.

For instance if both engines technically had 800 hours on them but the geared up one was IRANed in 2011 for the prop strike and the other was original to the airplane from say 1995. I definitely would buy the geared up one. At about 100 hrs a year corrosion is unlikely and that would have value to me. 

I said that backwards but you know what I mean.

[Yetti]

So they make these hail repair kits for $70 on Amazon.   Someone already said oh they are not approved for airplanes.   And how do you know they will work on Aluminum skin.  Well I have an aluminum hood on my Subaru that got hail damage.   It works really well.   Kind of an art form to learn.    I would say use everything else as the determining factors between the two planes and ignore both these items.

[larrynimmo]

Would hail damaged ailerons be airworthy?

[Paul_Havelka]

I't depend on the amount of damage.

 

@Yetti, I have successfully used dry ice to remove hail damage before.  Wasn't on aluminum b though.  Rubbed the dry ice in a circular motion from outside to the middle of the dent and the metal drew up with the cold

[gsxrpilot]

For me it would definitely be the geared up Mooney. Both are damage, but one is only in the log book the other is there for all to see every time it's parked on the ramp.

[EricJ]

31 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

Would hail damaged ailerons be airworthy?

I don't know of a spec or limitation on dings for airworthiness or repair.   The SM for my J model doesn't seem to say anything about it.

[EricJ]

Personally I don't think either the mild hail damage or an ancient gear up would distinguish between the two.   There's so much else to look at I think it'd be unlikely that those minor things would be a differentiator.

 

[kortopates]

With gear up's happening in the Mooney fleet 2-3 times a week, at least before this era of COVID, geared up Mooneys are in the majority especially in the older planes that have seen more than one. Although many longbody's are still young enough not to have seen one yet, the fact is all the damage is repairable with new parts removing virtually all damage. When "properly repaired" I wouldn't have the slightest concern with a Mooney that happened to have some new gear parts like the one piece belly pan and other assorted parts replaced. 

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, MICKEY said:

 

First one with a Gear up 9 years ago,     And 10 years and 1000 hrs since incident.

 

I think I'd be more interested in the Time Machine that transported this airplane a year into the past... 

[MICKEY]

Just now, Andy95W said:

I think I'd be more interested in the Time Machine that transported this airplane a year into the past...

The dates and hours are the same.  I have tried to mask which aircraft these are, so it doesn't effect their values.  But yes, if there was incongruent hours and years, I agree. 

E 

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I think I'd be more interested in the Time Machine that transported this airplane a year into the past...

Yeah, that's a defective Mooney, right there!  Mooneys are designed to be Time Machines into the FUTURE!

Run from this one!

[MikeOH]

Seriously, though.  I bought my Mooney with a gear-up history; it was before the last engine overhaul and had the one piece belly, which was a plus!

I didn't give the gear up a second thought.

[carusoam]

Fixing flight surfaces is a more sensitive situation... Tough to do properly...

Not fixing them brings up this same discussion when you get to sell....

The effect on aerodynamics... of a few small dents... minimal...

The effects of filling with body filler... a weight and balance issue... balancing flight surfaces is a bit of a challenge...
 

If you by the GU plane... based on this thread’s logic... expect a spring storm to arise dropping hail all over the place at the closing... 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ross Taylor]

Gear up vote here, as well...as long as you're comfortable with the quality of the documented repairs.  Personal bias here - we bought a prop-strike plane that had a gear failure...without any concerns at all, based on the repairs and the owner. 

However, it's possible the hail damage could be seen as a speed mod...like a dimpled golf ball, maybe?  Hmmm...

[irishpilot]

Gear up as well. Just realize when it comes to selling, you'll lose a certain percentage of buyers as they'll shy away from large repairs in the logs.

My first Mooney had a gear up from the PO and was professionally repaired. I had some folk walk because of the history.

After my experience with my previous Mooney, I wouldn't buy a Modern Mooney with repaired damage unless I really trusted the reputation of the repair center.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[exM20K]

With 30+ long body Mooneys currently for sale on Controller alone, I'd pass on both of these.  Airplanes are very easy to buy, though not always so easy to sell, so why make someone else's story "your" story?

The trainer end of the market (pro pilot schools) is getting wrecked right now; there's a fleet of 30 Diamonds for sale among others as these operations fail under the unbearable stress of this shutdown - both economic and immigration.

I'm not especially bullish on any part of the piston market right now - especially considering how many of the higher-priced transactions are financed.

Or, put another way, the fear of missing is at all-time low with respect to airplanes.

Looking back to 2009-11, there were some smoking deals done on lower-end SETP's - Jetprops, especially.  like $6-700,000 deals on planes that used to have two commas in the price.  I'd expect the same for the top of the piston market.

-de

[Bravoman]

The answer is always the same on damage history. As long as it is properly factored into the sales price the buyer shouldn’t get hurt because when it is time to sell the same thing can happen again.

[Ibra]

In all it should be fixed and factored in the price, emotionally many will go for land gear up instead of losing aileron 

[MIm20c]

13 hours ago, exM20K said:

The trainer end of the market (pro pilot schools) is getting wrecked right now; there's a fleet of 30 Diamonds for sale among others as these operations fail under the unbearable stress of this shutdown - both economic and immigration.

Wow, 29 DA20’s for just over $1m.