m100psi Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Hi all, I worked with my mechanic to do the first oil change on my 78 J. When we changed the filter, we just removed it and let oil drain all over the engine bay and nose wheel, then he cleaned it (and the ground) with some solvent afterward. I keep my aircraft on the ramp and even if I could do it this way, I don't think the aircraft manager or my neighbors would be too pleased with it. There's a video showing a half-pipe PVC method for catching filter oil in an M20C. Does that work with the J, or is there another method others use to reliably catch filter oil? Thanks, Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 There's million ways to do it. I like putting a 1 gallon ziplock bag around the filter and that removing it in the bag. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 4 hours ago, m100psi said: When we changed the filter, we just removed it and let oil drain all over the engine bay and nose wheel, then he cleaned it (and the ground) with some solvent afterward. That’s just sloppy, unprofessional and irresponsible! The solvent is not good for the nose tire and certainly the oil spill is harmful to the environment. I would find another mechanic and do things right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATTS875 Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 This is one thing I would like to start doing also. I have watched several videos with the pvc pipe. My first thought was to get the A&P to show me how to do it and let him know I am more than willing to pay him for the job but I want to do all the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Matt, Usually working with a mechanic is a great way to learn the ins and outs of doing the the job the right way... especially in CA, where everyone has a higher sense of what is environmentally correct... Rest assured, spilling any oil can be avoided... people try all types of tools and tricks to avoid it... Mostly drips of oil easily spread a long way... Finding oil drips after changing oil can be un-nerving... Oil drips are not normal... and serve as a warning that something wants to be fixed... Spreading oil all over the place...kind of hides the warning signs of a possible real problem... There are a few threads around here regarding tools and things MSers use... It takes some practice... Lots of benefits... Each time you do it, you learn about seals, oil return lines, drain valves, and all the other things bolted to the engine... PP thoughts not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATTS875 Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, carusoam said: Matt, Usually working with a mechanic is a great way to learn the ins and outs of doing the the job the right way... especially in CA, where everyone has a higher sense of what is environmentally correct... Rest assured, spilling any oil can be avoided... people try all types of tools and tricks to avoid it... Mostly drips of oil easily spread a long way... Finding oil drips after changing oil can be un-nerving... Oil drips are not normal... and serve as a warning that something wants to be fixed... Spreading oil all over the place...kind of hides the warning signs of a possible real problem... There are a few threads around here regarding tools and things MSers use... It takes some practice... Lots of benefits... Each time you do it, you learn about seals, oil return lines, drain valves, and all the other things bolted to the engine... PP thoughts not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Definitely learning a lot on this site with all the knowledge. I have zero mechanical understanding and hope to start learning the different systems and mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Expect to hear some OWTs that sound like they make sense... Don’t be afraid to ask... The goofier the old wife’s tail... the more heat you have to endure... It is possible you will hear things like... That’s just my plane marking her territory... That’s the external lubrication system working... IO360s always do that... it’s 1930s technology that have to.... I put 7quarts in here... and she gives me back a quart out there..... It is possible to have a 1960s plane not leak oil at all... Some leaks are really easy to fix... others are more disappointing... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 If you wait 1 day after flying to change the filter the oil will have drained back into the engine and the filter will drip very little. Another benefit from waiting a day is a lot of oil will drain out of the engine into the sump and you will be able to drain more of the old oil out. Since you don't have a hangar I'd just wait a day or two and do both the draining and filter change while cold. Since I have a hangar I connect a hose to the quick drain when I return from a trip to start the draining process hot. Then I return a day or two later to complete the process. Another benefit from doing your own oil change is the opportunity to carefully inspect the engine. Taking your time, look over everything. Look for wires and tubes chafing. Look for things too close to the exhaust and burning. Look for missing and loose screws and clamps. Look for cracks. Look for exhaust stains. (grey power) Inspect the exhaust system for cracks. Even if you are not going to do the fixing yourself, you can identify a problem before it becomes serious. Every single time I do an oil change I find at least a minor problem that needs addressing. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m100psi Posted April 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 The ziplock method seems like a good, simple solution. A couple other oil questions while on topic... For those who use Camguard, do you add a little extra any time you add a quart of oil? Currently, my engine burns about 1Q in 6-7 hours, seemingly in an effort to keep the #4 plugs well lubricated. Just wondered if the normal practice was also replacing the additive, or not worrying about the difference. I’d also like to get another analysis prior to my next change. Is there any reason not to pump a little oil out the filler neck rather than dropping the lower cowling? I never change oil that way even on cars, but seems like an easy way to get some out for analysis when not changing. Thanks, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Expect to keep the level of additive as constant as practicable... How often you change your oil will also affect your decision of how to handle this... If you were to go 100hrs before the next oil change... that would be a lot of quarts getting used without adding any additive... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufflerbearing Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Camguard appears to be a good product to help protect/coat the internals from rust. If your plane is flown regularly, this should not be a problem and the additive should not be needed. If your plane sits for weeks/months at a time, then camguard may be a really good solution for you. Another route is to purchase something like Aero Shell Plus that has the camguard already in the oil. When adding oil, the camguard additive won't be diluted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, m100psi said: The ziplock method seems like a good, simple solution. A couple other oil questions while on topic... For those who use Camguard, do you add a little extra any time you add a quart of oil? Currently, my engine burns about 1Q in 6-7 hours, seemingly in an effort to keep the #4 plugs well lubricated. Just wondered if the normal practice was also replacing the additive, or not worrying about the difference. I’d also like to get another analysis prior to my next change. Is there any reason not to pump a little oil out the filler neck rather than dropping the lower cowling? I never change oil that way even on cars, but seems like an easy way to get some out for analysis when not changing. Thanks, Matt I've used the half PVC pipe on my J - works fine. I also buy one of the cheap painter's tarps that is paper on one side and plastic on the other and cut it into smaller pieces and put one down under the engine just in case I slip up. (I'm famous for making a mess -- you should see me caulk windows). What did NOT work was the Tempest tool that punctures the filter -- there wasn't enough room to get it on the filter with the A3B6 filter location. Best to add Camguard with each oil addition to keep the concentration constant. You can certainly sample from the dipstick tube. Blackstone sells a pump to make it easier: https://www.blackstone-labs.com/products/vacuum-pump/ Skip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said: Camguard appears to be a good product to help protect/coat the internals from rust. If your plane is flown regularly, this should not be a problem and the additive should not be needed. If your plane sits for weeks/months at a time, then camguard may be a really good solution for you. Another route is to purchase something like Aero Shell Plus that has the camguard already in the oil. When adding oil, the camguard additive won't be diluted. The Aeroshell and now Phillips products have the equivalent of LW-16702 rather than Camguard. This is because some Lycomings require LW-16702 by AD and buying the premixed oil negates having to measure and add the LW-16702 with each oil addition. LW-16702 is an anti-scuff agent that is supposed to offer protection to the camshaft. I don't believe it has any anti corrosion properties. It's approved for all Lycomings. Camguard is supposed to have a bunch of beneficial effects. I don't know of any oil that has it premixed, though, so you still have to add it yourself. I've got a IO-360-A3B6 with roller tappets that I believe offers the best shot of avoiding camshaft distress. Roller lifters were used in the radials and no knowledgeable person I've talked to has ever heard of cam gear problems in a radial (radial's Achilles heel is the master rod bearing(s) -- the source of over/under square confusion -- but I digress). I still put in Camguard figuring it's not that expensive and can't hurt anything. Skip 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m100psi Posted April 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 Good idea using the just in case tarp. I’ve changed the oil in our vehicles many, many times and still manage to end up with some splatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 I use a piece of tinfoil. Shape it like a little trough, wrap around something behind the filter, like linkage, brace, etc. Let oil run down the trough into a bucket. When finished, crumple up and dispose of. Caution, this may not work well on the ramp during a windy day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cferr59 Posted April 25, 2020 Report Share Posted April 25, 2020 On my C, it is hard to fit anything under the filter, but I managed to get a plastic shopping bag around the filter and it contained most of the mess. I ended up with a small amount on the firewall and cleaned it off with kerosene. I'll try a ziplock bag next time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amillet Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 Stuff a disposable baby diaper under the filter (after letting it drain for a day or two); plus zip lock bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 I tried the PVC half-pipe trick on my J and couldn't get it to work. Now I just leave it overnight and take the filter off the next day and there's hardly any mess at all. Much easier. It may matter whether you have an IO-360-A1B6D or - A3B6. I think separate mags moves the oil filter to a different spot. I have an -A1B6D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB4 Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 Zero mess a few drops. Back the screw all the way out after piercing, takes an hour to empty filter https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/tempestoildraintool.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw4pT1BRBUEiwAm5QuRyF7n73WbQtJLFo3oE-24sqB6reD-szLhIagumcic6-Ba22VTy9jQRoC3IEQAvD_BwE Last oil change I did have some spillage, so I am down grading this product. After sitting all night. It seemed to drain out most of the oil from the filter, not all, but enough to unscrew filter without a huge mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 I take a empty quart oil container, cut off one side, slide under the filter when I take the filter off the oil drips in the old container, generally nothing misses, I’ll take a pix of my cut oil bottle and post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 3 hours ago, KB4 said: Zero mess a few drops. Back the screw all the way out after piercing, takes an hour to empty filter https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/tempestoildraintool.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw4pT1BRBUEiwAm5QuRyF7n73WbQtJLFo3oE-24sqB6reD-szLhIagumcic6-Ba22VTy9jQRoC3IEQAvD_BwE I tried one of those my J and there was no clearance for it. I found it to be unusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB4 Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 1 hour ago, EricJ said: I tried one of those my J and there was no clearance for it. I found it to be unusable. Adequate clearance on mine. Worked so well, I didn't need this flexible funnel which is same as pvc method only this thing forms. https://smile.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B017MTFIYE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flexible+funnel&qid=1587942251&sr=8-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 Just now, KB4 said: Adequate clearance on mine. Worked so well, I didn't need this flexible funnel which is same as pvc method only this thing forms. https://smile.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B017MTFIYE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flexible+funnel&qid=1587942251&sr=8-1 Do you have a dual mag or separate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippernaper Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 Adequate clearance on mine. Worked so well, I didn't need this flexible funnel which is same as pvc method only this thing forms. https://smile.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-Flexible-Draining-Tool/dp/B017MTFIYE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flexible+funnel&qid=1587942251&sr=8-1 +1 for the form-a-funnel. Tried the pvc pipe trick, but this was much easier, cleaner, and quicker. Still a learning curve, took me a couple before I was down to the 1 or 2 drop of oil skill level.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted April 26, 2020 Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 46 minutes ago, KB4 said: Adequate clearance on mine. Worked so well, I didn't need this flexible funnel which is same as pvc method only this thing forms. Couldn’t get it on the A3B6. Might work on the dual mag A3B6D. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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