PTK Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 https://douglassinteriorproducts.com/product-category/aviation/ I bought a 12’ goods remnant at a great discount. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD34M Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 +1 for SCS. Great mat set for my Ovation with the N number monogrammed on them - perfect fit. Couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Just noticing some tail numbers are easier to memorize/recognize/say than others... Wondering if N1234a is available... That will be painted on my forever plane.... -a- Bummer... I’d have to buy the Duke that comes with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor_U Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Wondering if N1234a is available... That will be painted on my forever plane.... I'm sure you could come with something better. A friend of a friend fly RV8 N247BJ. I'll let you all figure it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahir K Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 3 hours ago, PTK said: https://douglassinteriorproducts.com/product-category/aviation/ I bought a 12’ goods remnant at a great discount. Thanks for the link! Did 12 feet cover just the floor carpet or did you do the side lining as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 12 hours ago, Tahir K said: Thanks for the link! Did 12 feet cover just the floor carpet or did you do the side lining as well? It’s not only 12 feet that you need! I don’t remember the area my J required. It’s a lot more than 12 sq. feet! Carpet comes in standard rolls. It’s called “goods.” Either 12, 13.5 or 15 foot goods.You have to measure and get enough length in the roll and be sure you cut it right so you don’t waste it. You need to orient the long floor and side wall pieces correctly so you don’t buy more than you need and waste it. I found that getting 12 ft goods was the most economical. That’s what 12 ft means. It minimized carpet I needed to buy while also minimizing waste, i.e. had least left over. If you buy a remnant roll be sure its long enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 8 hours ago, cliffy said: If you go to a local auto shop for your materials make sure you read AC 43.13-1B "Section 4. Cabin Interior" Paragraphs 9-60 thru 9-64 As a CAR3 airplane we don't need to meet Pt 23 Burn Certificate requirements BUT we do need to show compliance by referencing the material manufacturers compliance with some national standard for either flash or flame resistance (part 91 operations only). And the carpet installation has to be signed off in the log book by someone. Thanks. As owner, do I count as a legal "someone" to sign off? I had thought so under part 43 owner allowed, but after your post I'm now uncertain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Interior fabrics, and rugs... are owner maintenance kind of things... Proper documentation of all the details in the right places is something an owner is capable of... Where you may immediately run into a challenge.... The nose wheel hump... If you are using carpet to cover it, a few control rods are moving up and down right in front of the hump... A mechanic is required to momentarily disassemble and re-assemble the flight controls... My mechanic did that part... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 YUP Preventative Maintenance but it still has to be signed off with owners name , license number and type and and a description of what was done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 10 hours ago, MikeOH said: Thanks. As owner, do I count as a legal "someone" to sign off? I had thought so under part 43 owner allowed, but after your post I'm now uncertain. I can only speak for myself and my J in which case the answer is yes. Carpet in the J is very simple and does not interfere with any controls. Be sure to get properly sourced certified carpet (not from local auto shop or home depot) with certifications and burn test when you order the carpet and put in with the log book entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahir K Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 19 hours ago, PTK said: It’s not only 12 feet that you need! I don’t remember the area my J required. It’s a lot more than 12 sq. feet! Carpet comes in standard rolls. It’s called “goods.” Either 12, 13.5 or 15 foot goods.You have to measure and get enough length in the roll and be sure you cut it right so you don’t waste it. You need to orient the long floor and side wall pieces correctly so you don’t buy more than you need and waste it. I found that getting 12 ft goods was the most economical. That’s what 12 ft means. It minimized carpet I needed to buy while also minimizing waste, i.e. had least left over. If you buy a remnant roll be sure its long enough! Thanks for the advice! I'll make sure to follow that when ordering and cutting. I reached out to them in regards to sample and colors. They included this in their response. Wondering if you ran into this as well? "We are also a wholesaler so ideally we would need a business license focused on the aerospace/upholstery industries to insure wholesale pricing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 As a retailer... they sell their product at retail prices... which is good for Mooney owners... Unless you are buying lots of stuff... the wholesale pricing doesn’t necessarily apply... Which is good for Mooney shop owners... Does this help any? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahir K Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 As a retailer... they sell their product at retail prices... which is good for Mooney owners... Unless you are buying lots of stuff... the wholesale pricing doesn’t necessarily apply... Which is good for Mooney shop owners... Does this help any? Best regards, -a- I understood this part I just didn't know if them being wholesalers excluded me from buying from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 SCS has an MS presence... @ scs interiors... You can ask them directly... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahir K Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, carusoam said: SCS has an MS presence... @ scs interiors... You can ask them directly... Best regards, -a- I should probably clarify. That email response was what I received from Douglas Interiors which is where @ PTK purchased carpeting not SCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Tahir K said: Thanks for the advice! I'll make sure to follow that when ordering and cutting. I reached out to them in regards to sample and colors. They included this in their response. Wondering if you ran into this as well? "We are also a wholesaler so ideally we would need a business license focused on the aerospace/upholstery industries to insure wholesale pricing" PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 12 hours ago, PTK said: I can only speak for myself and my J in which case the answer is yes. Carpet in the J is very simple and does not interfere with any controls. Be sure to get properly sourced certified carpet (not from local auto shop or home depot) with certifications and burn test when you order the carpet and put in with the log book entry. Hmm, it was my understanding that you can source from anyone as long as you obtain an appropriate burn cert (of course, that cost may negate the savings). Also, I thought wool is self extinguishing; it will inherently pass a burn test. Which makes me wonder if you even need a burn cert for wool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 10 hours ago, MikeOH said: Hmm, it was my understanding that you can source from anyone as long as you obtain an appropriate burn cert (of course, that cost may negate the savings). Also, I thought wool is self extinguishing; it will inherently pass a burn test. Which makes me wonder if you even need a burn cert for wool? You are probably right. And it’s the same argument with leather. My philosophy is since I’m paying either way I might as well source the material directly from an aviation vendor. They have full knowledge of what is expected by the FAA and will sell me product approved to go in an airplane. And provide me with full documentation so if there's ever any question the trail is all in the logbook. I think with some homework and smart buying you’ll find that it's very cost effective. I did my little Mooney’s complete interior carpet and leather fully documented this way and saved money too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 16 hours ago, MikeOH said: Hmm, it was my understanding that you can source from anyone as long as you obtain an appropriate burn cert (of course, that cost may negate the savings). Also, I thought wool is self extinguishing; it will inherently pass a burn test. Which makes me wonder if you even need a burn cert for wool? Many auto interior upholstery shops are well aware of the requirements of Pt 23 burn certification for Pt 23 airplanes. They can sell and sew perfectly legal interiors with burn certs. You just need to look around. I've found several over the years. The pricing may not be any better than "Aviation" suppliers. they all know what the market will bear. CAR-3 airplanes (Mooneys) can also come under a different set of "regs" as I noted in my above post. All perfectly legal even for the owner to sign off as preventive maintenance as long as it is only a Pt 91 operation. You can always go the Pt 23 Burn Cert route on CAR-3 airplanes. Whether the material is wool, cow, horse or synthetic it still has to meet the regs. Either CAR3 regs or Pt 23 regs. They still need some kind of attributable certification. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 9 hours ago, PTK said: You are probably right. And it’s the same argument with leather. My philosophy is since I’m paying either way I might as well source the material directly from an aviation vendor. They have full knowledge of what is expected by the FAA and will sell me product approved to go in an airplane. And provide me with full documentation so if there's ever any question the trail is all in the logbook. I think with some homework and smart buying you’ll find that it's very cost effective. I did my little Mooney’s complete interior carpet and leather fully documented this way and saved money too! That's the trade off I'm evaluating, roll my own with automotive wool carpet and get a burn cert myself, or buy from an aviation vendor at a premium price. If I can get a remnant, like you did, for $100 then I'm done. But, if I have to fork over $500 for min buy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, MikeOH said: That's the trade off I'm evaluating, roll my own with automotive wool carpet and get a burn cert myself, or buy from an aviation vendor at a premium price. If I can get a remnant, like you did, for $100 then I'm done. But, if I have to fork over $500 for min buy... As Cliffy said previously, you don't need a burn cert for a Mooney, because they were certified under CAR-3. The materials simply need to have been certified to a national standard of some sort for flammability. If an auto upholsterer is putting it into cars, then they will know that standard. That standard is then noted in the logbooks. Only catch is that there may not be ashtrays installed and the airplane must be placarded as no smoking. Easy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Andy95W said: As Cliffy said previously, you don't need a burn cert for a Mooney, because they were certified under CAR-3. The materials simply need to have been certified to a national standard of some sort for flammability. If an auto upholsterer is putting it into cars, then they will know that standard. That standard is then noted in the logbooks. Only catch is that there may not be ashtrays installed and the airplane must be placarded as no smoking. Easy. Thanks. I missed the "do not need" if it's a CAR-3 aircraft. But, I still need a copy of whatever cert they do have, correct? That is, I can't just put in carpet with NO burn reference at all, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 The logbook entry could be as simple as, "Installed ABC Carpet. IAW CAR-3, this carpet is manufactured to burn safety standards SAE1234, ashtrays are not installed, and aircraft has been placarded no smoking." The following website has some examples of those burn safety standards. The photo is from AC 43-13 and has the reference to the CAR-3 regulation. This is considered "acceptable data" by the FAA. https://www.satra.com/spotlight/article.php?id=328 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Nice work Andy and Cliffy! Last test after all the other stuff is in place... Take some samples to the fireplace... light them on fire... see how well they do... 1) do they not light? 2) do they burn and spread really slowly? 3) burn for a bit before self extinguishing? 4) Burn, melt, and cause a flaming river? 5) Does the flame emit a toxic cloud making it hard to breathe? 6) Lots of flame tests are listed under UL94... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_94 7) The carpet industry may have their own specific tests... A really good feeling comes from paying extra to get all the certs... then doing the self test in the home fireplace... Measured in minutes... the ground is a long ways away.... PP thoughts only, not a flame lab technician... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted April 4, 2020 Report Share Posted April 4, 2020 All carpet sold in the USA is required to also meet a National standard by law. I knew the number at one time but have forgotten it now. Someone can probably find the reference though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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