Unusual Fly-In Opportunities due to COVID-19?

[0TreeLemur]

I read that the FAA is waiving slot use requirements because airlines are cancelling large numbers of flights.  With airline traffic down, I am wondering if this creates unusual fly-in opportunities.  For instance, open landing slots at big airports (e.g. ATL).   Any thoughts?   Am I nuts?  Maybe we could have a Mooney fly-in at a major?  Then not shake hands.

 

 

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

To pay the fees at a major airport would be silly.


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[Boilermonkey]

Maybe a few touch and goes though!

[chriscalandro]

All I know is that yesterday on my way out I got cleared through the Miami Bravo when requesting flight following. I’ve never been cleared through the Miami Bravo before. The scariest part is I didn’t ask for it, didn’t need it. and my direct route took me 5 miles to the west of it!

[0TreeLemur]

10 hours ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

To pay the fees at a major airport would be silly.


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Maybe for you guys that get paid to do it for a living, sure.  But for someone like me, I might pay the fees once just to say that I did that.

[aviatoreb]

12 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Maybe for you guys that get paid to do it for a living, sure.  But for someone like me, I might pay the fees once just to say that I did that.

The been there done that t-short with an approach plate for KORD on the shirt?  I could groove with that.

[JT]

10 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I read that the FAA is waiving slot use requirements because airlines are cancelling large numbers of flights.  With airline traffic down, I am wondering if this creates unusual fly-in opportunities.  For instance, open landing slots at big airports (e.g. ATL).   Any thoughts?   Am I nuts?  Maybe we could have a Mooney fly-in at a major?  Then not shake hands.

 

 

Or go to JFK and not go to Broadway, or any museum, Times Square, Madison Square Garden, Freedom Tower, 9/11 memorial, Yankee Stadium, etc, etc,etc.....

[Stephen]

If you want to land behind a 737 without landing fees, try KMCI, I have flown in to drop off relatives at the FBO who take them to the airline terminal.....caution wake turbulence!

[N201MKTurbo]

The wife and I went out to dinner last night. First time in forever we didn't have to wait for a table.

[gsxrpilot]

9 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If you want to land behind a 737 without landing fees, try KMCI, I have flown in to drop off relatives at the FBO who take them to the airline terminal.....caution wake turbulence!

Yep, both DAL (Love) and HOU (Hobby) provide fee free opportunities to be in the pattern with the big boys. 

I was once departing DAL in some very sketchy IFR weather. It was pouring down rain so hard that at taxi speed, the prop couldn't keep the windshield clear. There was a large cell just off the end of 13. I'm lined up behind an SWA 737. I call tower and tell them we're ready to go in sequence behind the 737. The 737 can't take off because of the massive cell just off the end of the runway. So the tower asks if I can make a mid-field turn south. I say I can. The next question is if I can get past the SWA jet in front of me. Again, affirmative. We're cleared on to the runway. I squeeze past the 737 with my wing under his. The FO is looking down at us with a look that says, "We're not taking off, what the hell do you guys think you're doing??" Cleared for take off with an immediate right turn to 190, we take off, make the quick turn, and climb out into clear skies just west of the line of thunderstorms.

 

[0TreeLemur]

31 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If you want to land behind a 737 without landing fees, try KMCI, I have flown in to drop off relatives at the FBO who take them to the airline terminal.....caution wake turbulence!

I suspect that many of us land at a fields used by a mix of small GA craft and large people movers.  What about landing at a field that is normally VERBOTEN for GA?   Any of you furloughed people haulers have any suggestions?

[GeeBee]

KATL for example  is not Verboten. In fact they will handle you quite nicely. I have been on both sides of the coin there. The problem is. ramp fees and 8 dollar fuel.

 

[0TreeLemur]

1 minute ago, GeeBee said:

KATL for example  is not Verboten. In fact they will handle you quite nicely. I have been on both sides of the coin there. The problem is. ramp fees and 8 dollar fuel.

 

Did not know that.  You mean that if a Mooney wants to land at the worlds busiest airport they just sequence you in with a "keep up max forward speed"?  This surprises me.  It seems like at the very least there would be many hours during the day when the answer would be a chuckle followed by "unable".   Have you done it?   How much is the landing fee?

 

[N9201A]

Did not know that.  You mean that if a Mooney wants to land at the worlds busiest airport they just sequence you in with a "keep up max forward speed"?  This surprises me.  It seems like at the very least there would be many hours during the day when the answer would be a chuckle followed by "unable".   Have you done it?   How much is the landing fee?
 

Not recently, but I’ve Mooneyed into KLAS and KSFO.

I’m sure current fees and fuel fees are listed on ForeFlight.

[0TreeLemur]

Regarding ATL, I found a post online saying that the single engine landing fee imposed is $1.52 per 1000 lb, plus signature charges a ramp fee of $39.00 that they waive if you top off with their expensive 100LL go-juice.

[MikeOH]

Just now, 0TreeLemur said:

Regarding ATL, I found a post online saying that the single engine landing fee imposed is $1.52 per 1000 lb, plus signature charges a ramp fee of $39.00 that they waive if you top off with their expensive 100LL go-juice.

Not trying to discourage anyone, but make certain you are aware of ALL the ways you can be charged.  They may not all be called fees...but money out of pocket by any other name!  For example, they may charge due to TSA, or other security costs, etc.  IOW, the 'landing fee' might just be one of many.

[GeeBee]

OK, let's get this cleared up. First you have to differentiate between air carrier, which means you charge for your services and you are operating under either Part 121 or Part 135.

IF you operate under Part 121 or Part 135 you are required to charge Federal ADAP EXCISE tax to fund the ADAP trust fund which funds infrastructure, parts of ATC and the FAA. However the fuel you purchase is EXEMPT from ADAP EXCISE taxes. Airlines are prohibited from showing you the EXCISE tax on your ticket, they can just include it in the ticket price. If you want to know however, there are ways to discover it, such as purchasing your ticket with loyalty miles, then you will pay the tax directly at the end of the transaction.

IF you operate part 91, the Federal ADAP tax is INCLUDED in the price of each gallon of fuel you purchase. Because you are an EQUAL contributor to the system, you are entitled to be an "equal user". Meaning if you ask to land at KATL or KLAX you can use that facility. Now there are capacity controlled facilities, such as KLGA and KDCA where you need a slot, but there are a certain amount of GA slots allocated and yes you can get one.  Equally so it is agreed the airport itself will not charge you a landing fee. However the FBO may charge you ramp fees, and other "junk fees". They can also jack their fuel price. The airport authority generally takes a cut of that action usually on the basis of their "triple net lease" with the FBO. 

The 1.51/thousand pounds gross landing weight fee at KATL only applies to air carrier aircraft. It does not apply to Part 91 aircraft.

Last I checked the FBO fee at Signature at KATL was about 50 dollars for a GA airplane.

If you want to have fun, I used to operate 4 airplanes that were sometimes Part 91 and sometimes Part 135. Keep track of that paperwork! 

Now you might want to ask how much money big airports take in. First of all their triple net leases charge a gross receipts levy about 50% higher than most malls. Which is why a bottle of water costs 2 bucks. Average concession fee (on top of gross receipts) is about 17-20%. Add in "visitor taxes" and your 200 dollar rent a car becomes 300 very quickly. To put this in perspective, the second highest grossing governmental entity in the state of CA behind the cities of 500,000 or more population is. the Los Angeles Department of Airports. The amount of money these large airports bring in is mind boggling and how little we get out them is a scandal. 
 

[GeeBee]

Oh and you ask have I landed at KATL, yes even once in my PA-18 which was a hoot.

 

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

I was going in and out of KLAS for work and they really want you on your game. They realized that I was a pro pilot and could mix me nicely with SWA and the lot and I’d spend little time on the runway. Also planned my arrival as best I could on off peak times. Las Vegas controllers rock!


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[EricJ]

Went to Sky Harbor (PHX) once, which is very busy with the airlines and gets almost no GA traffic.   It was actually pretty fun.

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

Regarding ATL, I found a post online saying that the single engine landing fee imposed is $1.52 per 1000 lb, plus signature charges a ramp fee of $39.00 that they waive if you top off with their expensive 100LL go-juice.

Land with plenty of fuel. My goal is always to find 100LL for

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[Mjknick@gmail.com]

Only Oakdale is

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[0TreeLemur]

I landed at Stapleton (old DEN) in a C210 several times back in the '80's.   Lot's of "max forward speed" and "exit first high-speed".  Dropped a few pax off right at the end of the concourse back then (before the joys of TSA).  Those were the days.

[0TreeLemur]

I'm gonna go shoot a practice approach at BHM.  Won' be landing to avoid the $45 landing fee...  It's not worth it.

[GeeBee]

You will not be charged a landing fee unless you use the FBO.