Jump to content

Mooney down over New Hall Pass • Los Angeles


Recommended Posts

My longest-ever Mooney flight was around 5.4 hours.  I was at 12,000’ MSL over 4 of those hours. Hand flying, no AP, no wing leveler. And no oxygen.  
After landing (Perfect VMC) I sort of oozed out of the plane and into the FBO.  
And this was 30+ years ago.  
The pilot of the Newhall crash was 10 years older than I am today.  I can easily imagine he was tired.  

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found that my decision making is affected after 3 hours at 10,500. Cloudtops, storms below,  approaching sunset and this tiredness are not a good combination . . . But I eventually fell back onto my basic Instrument training and circled down through a nice large hole--standard rate turn, 500 fpm descent, 2 laps into the clear, another 180+ for the new on-course heading, then descend to the proper VFR altitude for my new direction of flight.

Shook the plane into the hangar after a functional-but-not-pretty crosswind landing, drove home and had a stiff drink before collapsing into bed. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4,5h flight duration.
Enroute at an altitude >10000ft, so legally not requiring oxygen, but physiologically quite exhausting (with or without oxygen)
77 year old pilot.
IFR approach in IMC.
The busiest GA airport of the world (I believe it is).
Late ATIS reception coming from the north, so things go fast from there.
VNY routinely expects you to stay fast (I presume).
So this was certainly not an easy flight.


In terms of analysis and learning something, you’re definitely on the right track here. I suspect that when all is said and done, the factors contributing to this incident will be more than “gizmo X failure” or the omnipresent yet unsatisfying “pilot failed to maintain control in instrument meteorological conditions.” Not much learning to be had from the latter (or the former is one doesn’t have gizmo X).

We all should scrupulously adhere to PAVE, IMSAFE, reasonable and unwavering personal minima, and maintain currency. But these are just what we need to be legal; maintaining proficiency requires more.

And some days, we just have to acknowledge it’s better to divert, return to base or just remain in place. Better to airline back to get one’s bird than become an incident or fatality.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm on the "younger" side but I find that something more insidious occurs when I fly for 5+ hours at 15-18K feet.  Essentially, I feel completely alert throughout the entire flight including landing but I believe it's mostly adrenaline from constantly monitoring my 02, engine gauges, thinking about fuel, weather, and all of the other hundred things that go through your head.  This probably provides me with a false sense of mental capacity when in fact I'm very tired.  It's a hard feeling to explain but I'm sure others have felt it.  I feel extremely alert landing, putting the plane away, and even driving home.  It then hits me after I get home and I'm wiped out for 12-24 hours.  In one case where I "felt" very alert but knew something was off, I forgot some small things that fortunately weren't enough to put me in serious danger but nevertheless were an indication of my weakened mental state.

Edited by Davidv
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, TGreen said:

I am "only" 52, fly with the AP engaged from 400 agl until on final and any flight longer than 3.5 hrs wipes me out. Once flew solo nonstop from Austin to SoCal in intermittent IMC. Man that was dumb.  

Are you checking your sats?  Everyone is different. High fitness levels do not necessarily translate to high performance at altitude.  I have seen an extreme athlete destroyed by altitude sickness at camp at 11K while a weekend warrior stood there smoking a cig and sipping a Manhattan from his nalgene bottle.  I don't find 10K to be any more taxing than lower altitudes.  The NV&H from 4hrs in a GA plane take a bit of a toll at any altitude.  Anyone who flies at 10K or higher ought to be checking sats. If you're "wiped" after 3.5hrs, there may be more at stake.

Edited by Shadrach
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Prelim came out this past week but unfortunately it was not much more than a recap of the tape we've already reviewed. It does add that the plane hit a power line 50' above the ground which led to it landing inverted 250' down slope of the lines. You can read it here: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20200313X13202&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA  The location of the site was the same as was reported elsewhere within a few days of the accident just west of a land fill. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just have to say that I am totally disappointed with SoCal.  Not only they have attitude problem with VFR flights near Bravo, one of them was vectoring me into IMC in icing conditions.  He really got upset when I did not comply and was ranting about the incoming traffic in the area.   I was at 10500 above Bravo and heading back from KSNA to KPAO.  I can understand how stressful it got when the accident Mooney was in challenging situation and and had to deal with SoCal.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just have to say that I am totally disappointed with SoCal.  Not only they have attitude problem with VFR flights near Bravo, one of them was vectoring me into IMC in icing conditions.  He really got upset when I did not comply and was ranting about the incoming traffic in the area.   I was at 10500 above Bravo and heading back from KSNA to KPAO.  I can understand how stressful it got when the accident Mooney was in challenging situation and and had to deal with SoCal.   

Greatest word ever: “Unable.”

Anyone know if there is a controller forum? Right now maybe some guy is on it kvetching about “some Mooney pilot who wouldn’t accept a vector.”

I saw I would be passing above some clouds that likely contained ice last year and picked up an IFR clearance. The controller immediately wanted to descend me into them because of his airspace restrictions. Um, no. They’re not always aware of all of our limitations, whether it’s equipment, pilot or what we are seeing out the windows. So sometimes we have to remind them.

Glad you were assertive and it worked out for you.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ATC directions are pretty clear... even with a strong accent at first...

The directions got clearer every 15 seconds... as if a different controller tried to intervene...

or the first one naturally spoke clearer as the situation got worse..?

ATC simplified the instructions to head south and climb to 5,000’...

The pilot’s response doesn’t match what was going on...

oddly, the pilot sounded quite clear in the beginning...

But never got established on the ILS in either direction or altitude...

 

the plane was more than 1k’ lower than expected....

The ILS instrument had to have a full deflection... off the top...


An immediate full power climb was needed...  and no climb ever came...

At one point the pilot stumbled and said he was level... not clear or very accurate...

ATC clearly stated to climb...

The pilot doesn’t mention any mechanical difficulty Or inability to comply...

Something wasn’t right inside the cockpit...

Two people... one challenged to fly properly, the other not heard from at all...

 

If my CO monitor is blaring... would you hear it in the ATC recordings?

PP thoughts only, I only listened to the recording once, and in real time... I may have missed something...

Prayers and best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has got to be the most horrific, ATC recording I have heard that unfortunately, I cannot un-hear, and will probably remember this voice every time I fly IMC.  I won't speculate what happened, but would like to know the NTSB report final, but I sincerely hope that NO ONE is ever in a similar predicament or fate. Very sad, very sincere condolences to his family and friends. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mooney Summit has been in touch with the family, and they are very grateful for the support we have provided. Further I want to thank Jolie Lucas who has volunteered her professional counseling services if needed and Michael Rogers who will engage as our local liason if needed going forward with the family. Together we can all help them get thru this like we have others.

paypal.com/us/fundraiser/charity/1280264

 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.