Leads on Mooney's outside of the usual websites

[mizer2167]

I'm looking for an M20E or C, but not finding much out there for sale. I'm looking to stay at or under $50K. What I have found seems to be priced at a premium as-equipped, or is very nice, but out of my budget.

Missed a decent E recently for $45K, but it hadn't flown much in ~11 years, maybe 100 hrs total. I found another E more well equipped that is still for sale, but W&B is very far forward and won't meet my typical mission of full fuel and two large folks in the front seats without ~100 lbs. in the baggage compartment; also has some light hail on the ailerons.

Does anyone know how to find leads for aircraft not currently on the typical websites (Controller, TAP, Barnstormers, Wingswap, ASO, Craigslist, Ebay, etc.) to investigate? I am relatively new to flying (first plane too) and not finding much for sale locally on message boards and the like at FBOs.

I found a really excellent other brand plane for sale near me by random chance reading a welcome post in a message board, but the owner's not ready to sell for several months to a year. I figured lightning might strike twice posting something here; I'm still interested in the speed and economy advantage vs. a less capable aircraft.

[Ron McBride]

Aircraft that sit around, may be much more expensive than the purchase price, you will need cash reserve’s.  Upgrades are really expensive and may add some to the value.

[Ross Taylor]

I know you wanted options outside of Craigslist, but I don't know if you're only seeing options local to you.   Did you see this one?  I have no affiliation or additional info, but being in AZ this showed up in my regular "aviation" browsing.  https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/avo/d/mooney-updated/7073614633.html

[carusoam]

Learn about WnB...

Take that plane and have a mechanic make it fit your situation... there are legal ways of moving things...

Then dialing for donuts... call each and every MSC... they know the owners that are planning on selling...

You will develop an ‘anti-sales pitch’ a five minute short elevator speech of what you are looking to buy...

Read the planes for sale ads in the for sale section of MS...

recognize that Es cost so much more than Cs... everyone gets to go through this experience in life....

For a few dollars more... an F looks fantastic!

50amu is a great price to find and buy an M20C... make it a good one...

It really helps when you know exactly what you want to buy, and how much you are willing to spend for that...

People selling machinery will spend a lot of time with you when you know... if you are unsure... they don’t usually answer the phone a second time...

There is one place on this planet... that will educate you in all things Mooney... enough that you will want to buy from them if / when able...

Does it sound like I had this experience once?

Best regards,

-a-

[Oldguy]

You can check the All American website https://www.allamericanaircraft.com/default.htm or contact @jgarrison directly. If there is a Mooney for sale, he likely knows about it.

Other off-the-beaten-path places would be putting in a call to a maintenance shop like a MSC to see if they have anyone they know who might be interested in selling their plane.

Also, be ready to jump on it when you find one, and make sure you can get a good PPI by an experienced Mooney mechanic before you seal the deal. There is a list of "cheap" planes where the purchase price was exceeded in the first year by repairs or the first annual. Don't be that person.

[mizer2167]

Well, without knowing what I don't know...My shopping wish list, in no particular order:

• Flies often
• Maintained by a good shop or a meticulous owner
• Tanks are good
• Pucks are good
• Min 140 kts TAS @ 75% (I've heard that M20's have more individuality w.r.t. TAS than some A/C)
• 900 - 1000 lbs useful load
• Low to mid time engine, <~1000 hrs
• Wing leveler working, or autopilot
• IFR GPS
• Good to average paint and interior
• ADSB (I live under a Class B veil, so wouldn't be able to use until installed)
• Need an empty weight arm around ~45 or so for 2-up with staggered seats

Looking for the "best-in-type" plane I can afford really....unfortunately it will not get me all those things above in an "E" and I would probably drop the GPS first as I'm still VFR. If no ADSB, I'd probably have to do a tail beacon ASAP, but not my preferred solution as I like having "in" hardwired to ships power.

[KLRDMD]

22 hours ago, Ross Taylor said:

I know you wanted options outside of Craigslist, but I don't know if you're only seeing options local to you.   Did you see this one?  I have no affiliation or additional info, but being in AZ this showed up in my regular "aviation" browsing.  https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/avo/d/mooney-updated/7073614633.html

That airplane has been for sale for a year or more, I. believe. I don't know why.

[carusoam]

3 hours ago, mizer2167 said:

Well, without knowing what I don't know...My shopping wish list, in no particular order:

• Flies often
• Maintained by a good shop or a meticulous owner
• Tanks are good
• Pucks are good
• Min 140 kts TAS @ 75% (I've heard that M20's have more individuality w.r.t. TAS than some A/C)
• 900 - 1000 lbs useful load
• Low to mid time engine, <~1000 hrs
• Wing leveler working, or autopilot
• IFR GPS
• Good to average paint and interior
• ADSB (I live under a Class B veil, so wouldn't be able to use until installed)
• Need an empty weight arm around ~45 or so for 2-up with staggered seats

Looking for the "best-in-type" plane I can afford really....unfortunately it will not get me all those things above in an "E" and I would probably drop the GPS first as I'm still VFR. If no ADSB, I'd probably have to do a tail beacon ASAP, but not my preferred solution as I like having "in" hardwired to ships power.

Mizer,

There are some Es flying around here that have all that and more...

How can we get you up to speed, and past some of the assumptions you are kind of stuck with..?

Will you be pursuing your IR?

The Phoenix Craig’s list plane is expensive (top of budget) and has high time listed on the engine... (message for Ken)

Best regards,

-a-

[mizer2167]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Mizer,

There are some Es flying around here that have all that and more...

How can we get you up to speed, and past some of the assumptions you are kind of stuck with..?

Will you be pursuing your IR?

The Phoenix Craig’s list plane is expensive (top of budget) and has high time listed on the engine... (message for Ken)

Best regards,

-a-

I'm open to learning. Which assumptions do I need to change?

My intention is to pursue my IR, yes, which shaped some of the "nice to haves" on that list.

The Phoenix plane looks okay, but has an O/H in it's future sometime soon that with doing the prop. O/H at the same time would approach the cost of the plane. For a run-out there are better planes to be had, in my opinion. I'm not keen on doing an overhaul for my first attempt at ownership.

[aviatoreb]

I just tested a craiglist crawler

https://www.searchtempest.com

the came up with

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/avo/d/tampa-mooney-m20c-single-engine/7060250200.html

I know its not what you want - just shows the crawlers work.

Edited March 6, 2020 by aviatoreb

[mizer2167]

Yes, I've used that tool. In my opinion, the guy that wants the equivalent of $80K for that M20C along with $150/mo. and $80/hr. wet will be waiting a while to find partners.

[carusoam]

Not a need to change the assumptions...

They work great to help minimize the work in finding and selecting the best option for you...

Unfortunately, they may get in the way of what you are trying to do...

If you are convinced a Mooney is what you want... (I’m convinced...)

Move on to the next step...

It really helps if you know what motor you want...

Some prefer fuel injection over carburetors...

See how much it costs to have a C vs E... often it is about 10AMU just for the different engine...

Then selecting the airframe length... E vs F... another 10AMU...

IFR ready instrument panels come in a variety of levels... a WAAS based GPS is a complete solution... another 10amu...

To get an engine OH... expect another 20amu...

Paint starts at 10amu, interiors run a whole spectrum from CB solutions to really nice...

Ask a lot of questions...

There are many answers around here.

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

45 minutes ago, carusoam said:

See how much it costs to have a C vs E... often it is about 10AMU just for the different engine...

Then selecting the airframe length... E vs F... another 10AMU...

a WAAS based GPS is a complete solution... another 10amu...

To get an engine OH... expect another 20amu...

Paint starts at 10amu, interiors run a whole spectrum from CB solutions to really nice..

Probably the most concise and accurate pricing breakdown I’ve ever seen here for the vintage Mooneys, M20C-F. 

[carusoam]

Andy,

That was my memorable experience from Y2K...

I really wanted an F...

The M20C was a perfect steed for the next decade. 

If MS were around back then... it probably would have been perfect for another decade... or two...

Best regards,

-a-

[mizer2167]

I'm pretty set on a short body. I would like the extra space, but typically fly alone or 2-up so would prefer to save the $10K.

Everything's a trade-off at my price point. Paint, interior, engine, engine hours, etc., hence a C or E being my focus.

[carusoam]

The benefit of the FI’d IO360 is it can readily be run LOP...

with a good engine monitor... you can keep an eye on four separate independent engines up front... running the engine in its most efficient way...

With the carb, fuel distribution is a bit more random... and changes a bit with throttle position... it can be run LOP, but takes a bit more effort...

The IO360 has 10% more HP than the O360... and should show strong differences in T/O run and climb rate...

 

I added 10% more HP to my current plane... its T/O run went from 1200’ to 800’... which is really nice for 2k’ long runways... 

Climb rate on an ideal day also exceeds 2kfpm...

 

Keep in mind this is 310hp in an M20R... a lot like an M20E, just bigger...

When selecting a forever plane... 10amu isn’t much over a long period of time... so... many people elect to go M20E when looking for a forever plane....

Other people start with an M20C to get their feet wet in GA... then they stepwise upgrade it over time...

There are two MSers around here that have nicely equipped and upgraded their E and C... over time... find Bob and Dev...

There isn’t an easy answer... for which is better... it is really which is better for you...

Then focus on things like getting a PPI... to avoid surprises the best you can...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Paul_Havelka]

There’s a m20e at my home drome, GMJ, that I think the guy is asking $40k for. Unfortunately it sits uncovered on the ramp for long periods of time. I’d send you a pic of the ad he has posted but the doors are locked


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[carusoam]

Hey the Creekrat stopped in... it’s been a while.

Any updates? Plane and family?

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

with the list you provided, you wont find a plane under 50. there is a C for sale on this site for 74. I'd strongly look at that one. its has everything you want and more.

[DJE22]

@mizer2167, I’ve read through this thread and @carusoam summed it up concisely! And it seems you’ve settled on the short body...there’s an a decent C that was just posted on fb Mooney group (and in TAP). It’s a ‘68 with newer paint (from pics, very nice); interior and a decent panel. Had a gear-up 400 hours ago with tear-down plus cylinders and new prop. (Those might detract you...maybe not) above mid-time engine but still lottsa life remaining if the tear down was thorough. Nice looking C for mid-50’s I believe.

the market is interesting right now. Real nice airplanes (equipment, paint and interior with no damage) are at a premium, but worth it IMO.

[Paul_Havelka]

I talked with the guy about the plane that’s at my home drome and he’s looking to get 43k out of his 64 e model. 8xx since major, clean original interior, decent original paint. Avionics are dated but appears to be ifr capable


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