jakearey Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Evening, gents. I know I’ll get a lot of thoughts on this so I wanted to put this out there. I believe my profile is updated but in Arkansas, 160 hour total pilot. First plane purchase, love the bird. Fly VFR right now but working on IFR ground school currently. Bought a great little 62C that has a 430 non waas and a stec 30 with alt hold. The com on the 430 is giving us issues and avionics shop suggests that we send it to Garmin to fix for the flat 1500 fee. I’m down with that. But they said they can update to waas and fix the com and install the waas stuff for 5400 installed. I will be working on my IFR soon and like the idea of waas. BUT to be honest I don’t know enough about waas and what real world help it will be. Will the stec 30 fly more approaches with 430 waas navigator than it does with a regular 430? What exactly is GPSS and would I need it for the stec 30 to be able to fly more approaches? I am installing a tail beacon this weekend for adsb. I have a few options; do tail beacon and just fix comm issue on the 430 and then just fly the hell out of her for a while until I figure out what I want to do. Or I could update to waas now while I am it and still do tail beacon. I lean towards doing the simple fixes for now so that I can learn more about what else I want in the panel over the next 12-24 months, and then upgrade to something else in the panel later. I am hesitant to spend 5k on the 430 when I could just spend 7k later and have a much better unit. Or maybe trade it for the Avidyne unit? I am conflicted about what to do and hesitant to drop too much in the panel until I know how long I’ll have this bird and know what type of flying I’ll be doing consistently. thoughts? Can someone help explain the advantage of a 430 waas vs 430 non waas? And finally, what else can the stec 30 do if it has a waas source? Thanks guys! JA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Definitely get the WAAS upgrade. It will add value to your airplane in a couple of ways, both value in dollar and value in utility. WAAS allows your to fly more approaches and to lower altitudes than you would with a non WAAS 430. Definitely get it if you can afford it. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakearey Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, NotarPilot said: Definitely get the WAAS upgrade. It will add value to your airplane in a couple of ways, both value in dollar and value in utility. WAAS allows your to fly more approaches and to lower altitudes than you would with a non WAAS 430. Definitely get it if you can afford it. Steve Thanks for the advice. Any experience with the stec 30? I’m wondering if it will fly RNAV stuff with just the waas upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorlon1 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Gotta go WASS. Ditto NotarPilot's comments. BTW, where in AR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakearey Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, vorlon1 said: Gotta go WASS. Ditto NotarPilot's comments. BTW, where in AR? Saline county. SUZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 31 minutes ago, jakearey said: Thanks for the advice. Any experience with the stec 30? I’m wondering if it will fly RNAV stuff with just the waas upgrade? I actually have an S TEC 30 in my plane with GPS steering. It came with it in 2012. It’s been trouble free. My plane originally cane with dual 430 WAAS’. Great set up. I’ve since switched to Avidyne 440s and haven’t looked back. I love them. The S TEC 30 with the 430, even without WAAS is a great combo provided you have GPSS. But if you’re gonna spend the money you might as well do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 With or without the Stec.... WAAS provides for the most up to date IFR approaches... vertical guidance to the ground.... (similar to ILS) Waas is also the required source of data for ADSB out... The 430W is 90s technology... it technically works, but the Avidyne or a GTN650 are quite a step more modern... So... 1) For IR training... VORs, ILS, GPS, and WAAS for the GPS... that will cover most of the bases... the 430W has one of each in the box... 2) For ADSB... your transponder and tailbeacon... work together in rebroadcasting your data... 3) Ultimately, it would be good to have your GPS wired to your transponder to broadcast all the data as a package... 4) Start the training then spend the money on the boxes... 5) Using what you have first, to see how easy/hard it is will make a difference... 6) when you see how nice a modern device is at cutting the workload... you may become more willing to spend the pile of AMUs... 7) If things don’t work out very well, scheduling, weather, kids, work... you may be happy that you didn’t spend the dough... 8) Something new is around the corner... it gets announced right after you commit to spending money on the old technology... 9) If AMUs are in short supply... Always check the shelf to see what’s available on the used market... you know who has the shelf right? Grimmy the Reaper aka Alan Fox... PP thoughts only... my IR training went on hold for a while... until I found out about degaussing the plane... the mag compass would hang up while doing 360s.... part of the IR training... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 So one issue is resale of your 430 box. If you sell it as is you’re not getting back more than 1.5k-2k for a box with a broke com board. Working with an 8130 from garmin you’d get about 4500 maybe. Verify the 430 market because it changes every time new tech is delivered. Used 430Ws are still hanging around at 6000-6500 or so. To me the $5400 garmin upgrade makes no sense. I sold my working 430 for 4500 and bought a working 430W for 6100. Upgrade cost to WAAS was $1600 for me as a reference point. If I were in your shoes, I’d get with Chase and see what he’d do on a trade in for a repaired 430 against an IFD440. Or consider doing what I did and find a good 430W used. All sorts of small airports have abandoned non precision VOR or NDB approaches in favor of the far more practical GPS/RNAV approaches. They can get you mins near an ILS. A lot of folks don’t fly GA to ILS / RNAV mins so figure out how to very your feet wet safely, develop your personal mins and stick to them. The other thing is that the 430W is just a better box - CPU is updated and refresh rate is logs faster than the non WAAS. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 For gpss you will need the Stec 901 adapter which (luckily) has fallen in price lately with all the pfd’s being installed. The Stec 30 is not capable of vertical navigation only altitude hold which will not change with a WAAS navigator. Personally, with the value of non WAAS 430’s dropping into the low 3’s I’d spend the flat rate repair fee (while Garmin is still offering it on 14/24 non waas units) and have a nice gps/nav/com that might last another decade or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 One more thought. What’s your nav / com 2? If it’s something with some legs on it I’d recommend the following.... Repair your 430. When you decide you actually need WAAS for approaches, replace com2 with a GNC355 COM/GPS. Then you’ll have redundancy, some screen real estate for small panel. You’d be looking at 6k or so plus labor down the road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakearey Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thanks for the help guys! I’ll price the stec 901 adapter and will look into all options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 @jakearey One last thought; Avionics source has a used (aren't they all now?) 430W for $5875. If you were to get it, sell your 430 for what you could get for it ($1-2K as is?) you could come out with a smaller investment in a shorter time frame. Check with @Avionics Source Chase. He might even be willing to do some sort of swap with you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 hours ago, bradp said: So one issue is resale of your 430 box. If you sell it as is you’re not getting back more than 1.5k-2k for a box with a broke com board. Working with an 8130 from garmin you’d get about 4500 maybe. Verify the 430 market because it changes every time new tech is delivered. Used 430Ws are still hanging around at 6000-6500 or so. To me the $5400 garmin upgrade makes no sense. I sold my working 430 for 4500 and bought a working 430W for 6100. Upgrade cost to WAAS was $1600 for me as a reference point. If I were in your shoes, I’d get with Chase and see what he’d do on a trade in for a repaired 430 against an IFD440. Or consider doing what I did and find a good 430W used. All sorts of small airports have abandoned non precision VOR or NDB approaches in favor of the far more practical GPS/RNAV approaches. They can get you mins near an ILS. A lot of folks don’t fly GA to ILS / RNAV mins so figure out how to very your feet wet safely, develop your personal mins and stick to them. The other thing is that the 430W is just a better box - CPU is updated and refresh rate is logs faster than the non WAAS. Ditto. I think you can get WAAS by buying a replacement 430W or AW. The better approaches are great, but also, who wants to have to go back to running RAIM checks and checking for alternate methods of nav along the route being in service? That was a pain, have not had to do that for a decade now with a WAAS GPS in my aircraft. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 As everyone else has said, get on the phone with Chase at @Avionics Source and run all the numbers. Ultimately what you want, is to get into an IFD440. The best way to get there will be dependent on the numbers, and Chase is the best one to talk through that with you. Once you do business with Chase, you'll do more business with Chase. He's good people. BTW... an M20C with an Stec30 installed puts you at the top of the list. That is a valuable airplane and worth upgrading even further. GPSS, an HSI, and WAAS will give you an IFR platform a pro pilot would be happy to fly. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Why put a bandaid on a 20+ year old box. Swap it out for an Avidyne 440. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakearey Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: As everyone else has said, get on the phone with Chase at @Avionics Source and run all the numbers. Ultimately what you want, is to get into an IFD440. The best way to get there will be dependent on the numbers, and Chase is the best one to talk through that with you. Once you do business with Chase, you'll do more business with Chase. He's good people. BTW... an M20C with an Stec30 installed puts you at the top of the list. That is a valuable airplane and worth upgrading even further. GPSS, an HSI, and WAAS will give you an IFR platform a pro pilot would be happy to fly. Appreciate the advice, sir! Researching that now and will get on the phone with Chase. thank you all for your input and knowledge! JA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 I hate oversimplifying, but I think it is a simple choice. If you are not going to be doing approaches into small airports, you can get by with non WAAS. Without WAAS, however, your approach choice limitation will be irritatingly limited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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