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Tank reseal - quality & expected life-time ...


NicoN

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My question may sound funny:

In 2017 (before i entered the group of owners) our tanks were re-sealed. According to the bill RH AND LH.

In summer 2019 I noticed fuel smell in cabin and in winter, I removed the interior panel and found blue AVGAS in the lower edge of the first wing rib. (LH)

Also, in summer 2019 I have seen blue "tracks" on one of the tank access panels on the upper side  of the wing (also LH) but only when the tank was filled to the max.

It seems, I was the first person to push our Mooney  to the limits and filling the tanks to the MAX.

 

Okay, recently the LH tank was re-sealed by the same maintenance which did the first procedure.

Of course, they presented us a high bill for that - and we do not want to pay for it. The first attempt was, they told us, the LH tank never was re-sealed.

Now the question is - which life-time can I expect from a tank sealing procedure?

The maintenance guy says, that it is completely normal for a tank leaking again even after roughly 2 1/2 years.

Hot temperatures  can cause this (our Mooney lives in a hangar for 98% of the year!), cold temperatures can cause this, every landing(!) can cause this. 

Hey guys: We are living in mid-Europe, it does not get excessively hot and not super-cold in winter!!!

I think, I can expect several years of non-leaking at least, but not 2 or 3 years.

What is your experience with re-sealed tanks ??

 

Edited by NicoN
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Done right expect decades...

resealing the top access panels is as easy as the job gets...  I had these done as part of a PPI...

wait... there are some easier leaks to fix... individual screws, rivets, and fuel level sensor seals.... :)

There are two versions of the sealant material... the less permanent one is used on access panels...

My plane came from Phoenix, so it wasn’t much of a surprise when the PPI revealed a need to reseal...

A decade later, no leaks yet...

Best regards,

-a-

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The guys at weep no more and wet wingologists both have warranty periods of about 7 to 10 years I believe. that alone says that the a full reseal should make it very easily past those 7 years. These shops wouldn't include a 7 year transferable to any buyer type of warranty if there's the expectations of having to deal with leaks every 2 years. Clearly the guys that did your tanks do not know how to properly seal tanks. Its unfortunate you need to deal with it, but its part of the learning experience of ownership. a lot of money doesn't always buy the best labour.

 

If you wouldn't mind including the name of the shop in order to keep future wet wing aircraft owners away from this shop/

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2 hours ago, NicoN said:

My question may sound funny:

In 2017 (before i entered the group of owners) our tanks were re-sealed. According to the bill RH AND LH.

In summer 2019 I noticed fuel smell in cabin and in winter, I removed the interior panel and found blue AVGAS in the lower edge of the first wing rib. (LH)

Also, in summer 2019 I have seen blue "tracks" on one of the tank access panels on the upper side  of the wing (also LH) but only when the tank was filled to the max.

It seems, I was the first person to push our Mooney  to the limits and filling the tanks to the MAX.

 

Okay, recently the LH tank was re-sealed by the same maintenance which did the first procedure.

Of course, they presented us a high bill for that - and we do not want to pay for it. The first attempt was, they told us, the LH tank never was re-sealed.

Now the question is - which life-time can I expect from a tank sealing procedure?

The maintenance guy says, that it is completely normal for a tank leaking again even after roughly 2 1/2 years.

Hot temperatures  can cause this (our Mooney lives in a hangar for 98% of the year!), cold temperatures can cause this, every landing(!) can cause this. 

Hey guys: We are living in mid-Europe, it does not get excessively hot and not super-cold in winter!!!

I think, I can expect several years of non-leaking at least, but not 2 or 3 years.

What is your experience with re-sealed tanks ??

 

Several decades and beyond would be expected in normal service.  Think of how long the factory sealing lasted before requiring replacement.

Andrew Hyett, a member from the UK takes his Mooney to Holland for work at Aeroskill. https://www.aeroskill.nl/

Clarence

 

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I have the same problem as Nico and mine were resealed in a shop in Europe as well. Dealing with that shop was the worst maintenance experience I ever had.
We should probably check if it is the same ...

Did you do a full strip and reseal, or just try to fix a leak? The former should last decades under your conditions, the latter is a crapshoot.
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1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Several decades and beyond would be expected in normal service.  Think of how long the factory sealing lasted before requiring replacement.

Andrew Hyett, a member from the UK takes his Mooney to Holland for work at Aeroskill. https://www.aeroskill.nl/

Clarence

 

I would recommend to ask others about their experiences

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5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Several decades and beyond would be expected in normal service.  Think of how long the factory sealing lasted before requiring replacement.

Andrew Hyett, a member from the UK takes his Mooney to Holland for work at Aeroskill. https://www.aeroskill.nl/

Clarence

 

And I believe he had tank work done there at some point in the recent past as well.

@Hyett6420-  you there?

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11 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Emmet I know about your experience and there are two sides to every story, ne c’est pas?

A friend of mine for example just took his new to him ovation to aeroskill and he texted me today and quote “ im not usually an emoji sort of person but I have to say that aeroskill is F...ing awesome, I think im going to be a customer formlife, their attention to detail is amazing”

On a personal level ive never had an issue with them and I concur with my friends comments.  
 

Andre

 

There are always two sides of a story - but I know of at least one more person having trouble for more than a year.. 

I have worked on special mission aircraft for a couple of years so I consider myself reasonable competent.

I will not discuss this in a public forum, but I have lots of pure technical and not emotional detail and fortunetly that has only one side. 

Anyhow it is everybodys own decision and the only thing I wanted to point out is that there are different opinions than yours.

If I remember correctly they painted your pucks, because they forgot to cover them before spraying ... and fortunetly they had to be replaced anyway ... 

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I was just out at Willmar and ran into Paul Beck on a cold, snowy day. He just came over to say hi when we landed.  It reminded me that I had his then-new company reseal my tanks 11 years ago when I bought my aircraft. I was a relatively new pilot and since then there have been about 1400 landings Not all of them were sweet and smooth.  The tanks are not leaking at all.  I told Paul I appreciated his good work.  I don’t know how he can stay in business if he does work that is that good, no one will come back simply because they don’t need to.

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11 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

I was just out at Willmar and ran into Paul Beck on a cold, snowy day. He just came over to say hi when we landed.  It reminded me that I had his then-new company reseal my tanks 11 years ago when I bought my aircraft. I was a relatively new pilot and since then there have been about 1400 landings Not all of them were sweet and smooth.  The tanks are not leaking at all.  I told Paul I appreciated his good work.  I don’t know how he can stay in business if he does work that is that good, no one will come back simply because they don’t need to.

He's good for a while...I talked to Paul about resealing my tanks.  The first available appointment was in November 2020, Oh, and I contacted him back in mid January.   My appointment is 1 Year from this week.  It will be in conjunction with my next annual.

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50 minutes ago, kpaul said:

He's good for a while...I talked to Paul about resealing my tanks.  The first available appointment was in November 2020, Oh, and I contacted him back in mid January.   My appointment is 1 Year from this week.  It will be in conjunction with my next annual.

Yeah, but after he worked on my airplane several years ago, it's so worth the wait...

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5 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

no you are incorrect in the latter part, that was my error, they were going to replace them as part of the refurb so deliberately had not covered them as a consequence.  

Interesting ... you said differently in the thread about your refurbishing...

So what - I can only offer experience and try to help others not to make mistakes I did - judge yourself ..

 

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I did tank reseal for left wing only at Weep No More 1 year ago. There is no leaks under wing anymore but I still smell fuel in cabin after the airplane is closed up for a few days.  Some side effect is the left wing fuel cap now is much harder to open.  Also sometimes the wing top fuel gauge gets stuck. 

 

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We had exactly these problems:

- The fuel cap was hard to handle. Only possible with pliers ( now they look accrodingly :-(  ). You can adjust the fuel caps with the castle nut. But it is also a good idea to change the gaskets. We have the "-431" caps. You are in EU? I can send you the source for the gaskets.

 

We also had that fuel smell. After removing the interior panel there were lots of blue tracks from AVGAS. The isolation foam was soaked with AVGAS and stinking. The leak came not from the fuel sender but from the corner  wing/first rib. Use kitchen paper towels to find out the location for the leak. But it may be misleading as the AVGAS seems to go everywhere.

 

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Spend a few moments on the fuel caps...

Pliers are a hint things are not set up right...

Broken or worn out parts will be the natural tendency of something that takes that much effort...

+1 on getting new seals that last forever... (nearly)

+1 for setting the fuel caps up properly... too loose, they leak... too tight, they won’t close...  just right range is about a turn and a half on the nut... very tight range...

there is actually a maintenance procedure for setting up the caps...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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On 2/19/2020 at 2:41 AM, NicoN said:

My question may sound funny:

In 2017 (before i entered the group of owners) our tanks were re-sealed. According to the bill RH AND LH.

In summer 2019 I noticed fuel smell in cabin and in winter, I removed the interior panel and found blue AVGAS in the lower edge of the first wing rib. (LH)

Also, in summer 2019 I have seen blue "tracks" on one of the tank access panels on the upper side  of the wing (also LH) but only when the tank was filled to the max.

It seems, I was the first person to push our Mooney  to the limits and filling the tanks to the MAX.

 

Okay, recently the LH tank was re-sealed by the same maintenance which did the first procedure.

Of course, they presented us a high bill for that - and we do not want to pay for it. The first attempt was, they told us, the LH tank never was re-sealed.

Now the question is - which life-time can I expect from a tank sealing procedure?

The maintenance guy says, that it is completely normal for a tank leaking again even after roughly 2 1/2 years.

Hot temperatures  can cause this (our Mooney lives in a hangar for 98% of the year!), cold temperatures can cause this, every landing(!) can cause this. 

Hey guys: We are living in mid-Europe, it does not get excessively hot and not super-cold in winter!!!

I think, I can expect several years of non-leaking at least, but not 2 or 3 years.

What is your experience with re-sealed tanks ??

 

I would call Paul Beck at Weep No More.  At one time he was licensing his sealant removal process. One was to the Mooney factory shop and I believe there was another one in Europe.  If there is a good shop in Europe Paul would know.

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