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M20E Avionics Upgrade Project


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On 2/19/2020 at 10:09 AM, spleecho said:

It was a perfect fit! If you guys need help with CNC-ing your stuff his name is Hector Franco in California, his email is jrframer1@gmail.com

He was really helpful extremely reasonable with price and time.

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Can't go wrong if Jesus is working on your plane! :)

Also thanks for the shout out to Hector, I am going to call him and see about machining my panels.  Called a bunch of CNC companies out here but no one really does instrument panels.

Edited by sdflysurf
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HAHA no plans on empty space! I left it for "future expansion", possibly Aera 796 or GPSMAP 496, I have both but now I'm not sure if I want either. Guys got the harness in the plane last couple days, amount of wires is rather intimidating. They hoping to power up tomorrow to start programming the transponder and the MVP. Apparently the MVP isn't programmed for fuel so I will have to reach out to E.I. and hope they help me enable it along with VI-221 for landing gear safe/unsafe option or just give us the password. @oregon87   Still waiting for Aircraft Spruce to send me the VI-221 resistor wires to hook into landing gear lights  and hope they help me enable it, if not I will have to put back the old ancient fuel gauges and that would look like an anus. Bummed I can't powder coat the panel, researching tough paints now. Decided to countersink all screws.

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3 hours ago, sdflysurf said:

Can't go wrong if Jesus is working on your plane! :)

Also thanks for the shout out to Hector, I am going to call him and see about machining my panels.  Called a bunch of CNC companies out here but no one really does instrument panels.

If you can't find anyone locally, try these guys:

https://www.bigbluesaw.com/

 

I used them to do RHS and LHS panel and while I used my own CAD software, they have their own free CAD tool online. 

Edited by Igor_U
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6 hours ago, spleecho said:

HAHA no plans on empty space! I left it for "future expansion", possibly Aera 796 or GPSMAP 496, I have both but now I'm not sure if I want either. Guys got the harness in the plane last couple days, amount of wires is rather intimidating. They hoping to power up tomorrow to start programming the transponder and the MVP. Apparently the MVP isn't programmed for fuel so I will have to reach out to E.I. and hope they help me enable it along with VI-221 for landing gear safe/unsafe option or just give us the password. @oregon87   Still waiting for Aircraft Spruce to send me the VI-221 resistor wires to hook into landing gear lights  and hope they help me enable it, if not I will have to put back the old ancient fuel gauges and that would look like an anus. Bummed I can't powder coat the panel, researching tough paints now. Decided to countersink all screws.

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Unfortunately, if fuel level or landing gear indication is not currently configured on the MVP-50P, it's not a simple matter of enabling it.  Functions need to be created and mapped to the EDC, voltage thresholds and limits set, etc.  We can reconfigure the system via e-mail, but we need to have a look at the current config to determine the best way to move things around to make room for the new functions.  I tried to dig into the configuration, but I can't make out any of the serial numbers for the EDC or pressure transducers.  If you can provide me with one, I will be happy to look into it further.

 

Edited by oregon87
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7 hours ago, spleecho said:

15 hour day. Got powered up. Config tomorrow. Exhausted. Will definitely need help from E.I. and level 2 password, installer knows the rest. 

I don't know if you noticed... but EI already replied to you. It's not just a level 2 password you need.

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7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I don't know if you noticed... but EI already replied to you. It's not just a level 2 password you need.

Yes just did thanks, wasn’t able to do a whole lot without password, not even color change. Will call tomorrow. Just programmed the transponder and worked perfect! One thing checked off the list. 

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Spoke to E.I. this morning and they won’t provide level 2 password to my I.A. They want drawings for modifications we need to do and $300 for changes every time. Can’t even change the tail number on my own without password and this is with two A&Ps, Avionics specialist and an IA. I feel this going south quick if this is the case I am considering stopping all work ripping everything out and buying JPI. @oregon87

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As this is a certified unit, any changes to the limits will need to be justified by what is specified in the POH, STC, etc.  The FAA will not allow us to provide passwords to users in the field to amend the markings beyond what was specified by the manufacture or STC holder.  If a mistake was made when completing the worksheet, we are happy to make simple changes to the limits and we would very likely waive the fee to do so.  In regard to the charge for the configuration fee,  configuring/re-configuring the MVP-50P system and amending the drawings is fairly labor intensive when large changes are requested or when adding functions when the system has been completed and delivered.  The fee is to cover the labor of our calibration team and was noted on the worksheet that was signed and submitted with the order.  I have attached a copy for you to review.  Worth noting, we would absolutely provide a password at no charge to change your tail number.

SKM_754e20022412110.pdf

Edited by oregon87
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@spleecho,

You have bumped into the wall for certified planes...  this wall somewhat protects ordinary people from mistakes caused by improper changes...

Fortunately, you are not an ordinary person and recognize what you need...

But now you need to follow the method to get what you want...

 

Don’t be in a rush, if you tear out all the work you have accomplished, to go with the competitor...

You will bump into the same wall, and JPI doesn't have an @ oregon or anybody else on MS...

Oregon87 is an awesome interface for a very good avionics company...

He has answered two questions for you before you have checked in to pick up the answer...

 

it doesn’t help to get bitter about the FAA process... it slowly evolves in the right direction..

 

PP thoughts regarding what people find around here... certified vs. experimental...

Best regards,

-a-

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Specifically...

instruments that are required primary gauges go through this controlled challenge...

For non-primary gauges/back-up gauges, or non-primary variables that are on a more encompassing instrument...

  • More flexibility for non-primary data... like changing the tail number...
  • Less flexibility for primary data... like OilP, OilT, MP, rpm.... ranges come directly from the POH limitations section.

PP thoughts only not a mechanic or instrument guy...

Best regards,

-a-

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Spoke to E.I. again and explained it again, they understood and I understood. I am happy to pay the $300 to reprogram it and as matter of fact that is WAY cheaper option than paying 3 guys to sit there and do changes here for hours so that isn't even an issue. Issue is where we literaly tried changing just the tail number last night and it won't allow that either. I will email the config file tonight to E.I. to program everything and pay the fee but IA has installed at least 10-15 of these so it isn't like he is just pushing buttons and guessing stuff. Husky sitting right next to my plane, we go in to do fuel calibration as a test where it shouldn't even be an option (Huskys are sight gauges) and sure thing it lets us right in, on mine no sir wants level 2 password. I am happy to pay the $300 to get this mapped right I just don't want to get 98% done and something not working. @oregon87 I am NOT expecting the fee waived, nobody gonna sit there do work for free and I don't expect them to, my beef is with the fact 3 highly qualified guys aren't even allowed to change a simple thing like word "L. Fuel" to "Left Tank" or tail number. To clarify, I DON'T want my guys wasting billable time to reprogram this, I WANT E.I. to re-map but I DON'T want them to be locked out when it's all done and 1 simple thing is wrong thus I want to finish entire install permanent (egt gauges wired temporary till doghouse is repaired etc) then sit down with IA and make the request on every single map for E.I. to do a one time re-program.

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More FAA related issues...

There is specific wording that has been approved for use on all those labels on the instrument panel...

They are called placards because they have specific details that need to be in the right place.

 

The FAA has simplified flying for some people by standardizing these things, and capturing them in the POH...

It can be a real hassle learning this on the fly...

It is more airplane ownership 101, then any PP flight training...

How disappointed do you want to be as you learn this stuff This first time?

 

Wait til you hit a bump in the road like some MSers have had with the JPI devices...

Some things are in your control...

Other things can be more difficult...

Nobody is perfect... not even MSers...

If you want to study up on people that are tired of the FAA constraining their freedom, or costing them more... those threads aren’t too hard to find... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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Definitely turning into politics which is what I was really trying to avoid. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the red tapes here from all 3 sides with what can and cannot be done, not trying to throw anybody under the bus but getting this close to the finish line, saving money for 2 years to do it, staying up til 2AM every day for the past month while working full time, not flying for a month and then being told "no you can't" really pushes your button. 300 bucks at this point is just small change, I am not THAT cheap, I hope the previous reply I posted explains my frustration. All I want is to know we can proceed with finishing up everything and not having to spend thousands to undo our work. I don't do well with "no you can't"s I wont break rules or ask anybody to either. E.I. did offer to reprogram which is what we need and want, just pray and hope we provide all requirements in one go and not waste anyone's time. As of now we will complete the install over the next few days as planned then sit down with E.I. on phone as they kindly offered and provide them with correct mapping we want, pay them and be done. Didn't meant to vent but I did anyway, gotta love FAA red tapes!

On a good note the Garmin GTX 345 GPS transponder is 99.875% done! Took about 4 hours for him to program everything in it as we did not do remote install so it had to be done thru the unit itself. 2 things left are static/pitot/transpoder checks and automatic power on with avionics. We pinned out wire 59 but not 38. Maybe my understanding is wrong but on panel mounts you need the 38 to be grounded and 59 does nothing...? Also anybody doing this transponder install save yourself time and get Garmin's altitude encoder! It was such a breeze to do, 3 wires straight onto the transponder and simple enable on screen and you done!

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From a function point of view, and with 6 years experience with it under my belt, the MVP-50 is a great engine monitor. (I don't want say the best for fear I would be taken as getting political---but).  It does so much more than the competition.  If I had any complaint, it would be that I've have had a number of the interface connections come undone and that required a trip to the A&P to get them fixed.

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28 minutes ago, donkaye said:

From a function point of view, and with 6 years experience with it under my belt, the MVP-50 is a great engine monitor. (I don't want say the best for fear I would be taken as getting political---but).  It does so much more than the competition.  If I had any complaint, it would be that I've have had a number of the interface connections come undone and that required a trip to the A&P to get them fixed.

It was a clear choice for me, I've put on about 400 hours of flying planes with MVP-50P and no joke I read the installation manual 6 times on both MVP and JPI, been saving for and hunting it for a year. Love it for what it does and what it can do. Caution lights and warnings tip the scales, I just wanted safety and reliability, not saying JPI doesn't have it but for me it was a clear choice. Are you talking about the pins that came loose? Mine are crazy tight I don't see it popping out any time soon.

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Do you guys have audible alarms with EI’s MVP?

This question came up earlier, but it was specific to JPI models...

It looks like There is a PSEngineering box that converts voltage out for lights into voice warnings...

Something that might be interesting to you guys...

 

I was wondering what the decision process was that Spleecho had been through... now we know.

Best regards,

-a-

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The MVP-50 does have the option for audible alerts on the experimental and OEM versions.  It may be possible to add that functionality to an STC'd version via field approval.  Unfortunately, the FAA required additional testing as to how audible alerts would be prioritize in the event of multiple functions violating a limit simultaneously.  As such, it was decided to suspend further development (certification) due to cost.  

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Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel proving more difficult than planned, old wiring harness was a spaghetti bowl! Old Flightcom 403 was wired wrong big time, it was using ground for all mics and headphone audio, stealing power from Garmin 430 while patching in ALL mics to one... new panel wants to be completely isolated from ground, having to re-wire jacks completely. Hello soldering iron...B)

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23 hours ago, spleecho said:

It was a clear choice for me, I've put on about 400 hours of flying planes with MVP-50P and no joke I read the installation manual 6 times on both MVP and JPI, been saving for and hunting it for a year. Love it for what it does and what it can do. Caution lights and warnings tip the scales, I just wanted safety and reliability, not saying JPI doesn't have it but for me it was a clear choice. Are you talking about the pins that came loose? Mine are crazy tight I don't see it popping out any time soon.

The final connection to both the EGT and CHT probes.  Recently I have some probes go bad that needed replacement.

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15 hours ago, carusoam said:

Do you guys have audible alarms with EI’s MVP?

This question came up earlier, but it was specific to JPI models...

It looks like There is a PSEngineering box that converts voltage out for lights into voice warnings...

Something that might be interesting to you guys...

 

I was wondering what the decision process was that Spleecho had been through... now we know.

Best regards,

-a-

Frankly, I wouldn't want audio alerts, as they would be very annoying.  The unit flashes a red light warning on the display when the gear isn't down.  That will catch your attention.

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