2/22/2020 Come say goodbye (or hello) to The Grove (8A6 in NC)

[salty]

On 1/25/2020 at 3:54 PM, Hank said:

ADS-B is not on my list at all, long or short. Rarely visit C space, my C doesn't climb well above 10K,  and the last 6 years since moving back South, ATL has NEVER ONCE cleared me into the Bravo. If I can't play, I ain't agonna pay!

My most common flight path is directly over ATL on course ~045; they'd rather me circle around through the arrival and departure gates at 8000 & up than fly through the empty airspace directly above the field. IFR, it's either HEFIN or SINCA; some controllers let me choose, and I squint at the weather. VFR, it used to be "remain clear of the Bravo" but the last couple years has changed to "stay out of the Bravo." So no, I ain't paying for the continued privilege of not playing. Charlotte and Cincinnati are more friendly, but I don't go there even every 2-3 years.

Besides, at $45-50/hour in fuel, it will take many hour-long diversions (30 minutes each way) to pay back 2 AMU + Install . . . . .

I’m confused. No adsb just makes flying around the bravo even longer. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by salty

[Hank]

4 hours ago, salty said:

I’m confused. No adsb just makes flying around the bravo even longer. 

Look at an ATL sectional. I just start my deviation at departure, looking to graze either the NW or SE corner of the Bravo, then turn Direct. That's just north of Thomaston? or really close to Cherokee County / Cartersville. The Bravo space is about 1nm inside the 30nm ring on the north and south sides.

[salty]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Look at an ATL sectional. I just start my deviation at departure, looking to graze either the NW or SE corner of the Bravo, then turn Direct. That's just north of Thomaston? or really close to Cherokee County / Cartersville. The Bravo space is about 1nm inside the 30nm ring on the north and south sides.

With adsb you can fly under. 

[skykrawler]

Wish I had noticed this event as I might have made the trip.  Looks like it was an interesting gathering.

I fell on the slippery slope the day I bought my airplane.   It would be easy to add to carusoam' s mandatory list:

Replacement of 4 course navigation with VOR -  even before my time

Introduction of GPS navigation devices -> requires expensive database updates - fewer new ILS  installations

Retiring of many VORs  - FAA saves money, expense transferred to above

Paper charts replaced by electronic flight bag applications - convenient but more expensive.  I have spent way more on this than I ever did on paper charts.

My airport just asked me to sign a 31 page lease for a hanger built in the 1960's and wants to increase the rent %3 every year.  That increase alone would pay for an ADS-B installation in 10 years.

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, salty said:

With adsb you can fly under. 

Ever since 2014, ATL Approach has said "remain clear of the Bravo." CLT is much friendlier, having cleared me through on my way to RDU. It's just an Atlanta thing; sometimes they even say "stay out of the Bravo."

Hope the Willow Grove shindig went well. We enjoyed our first dry, clear Saturday here in a long, long time. We've received 20" of rain in the last month, including 2" Wed night.and Thursday morning . . . . .

Edited February 23, 2020 by Hank

[salty]

20 minutes ago, Hank said:

Ever since 2014, ATL Approach has said "remain clear of the Bravo." CLT is much friendlier, having cleared me through on my way to RDU. It's just an Atlanta thing; sometimes they even say "stay out of the Bravo."

Hope the Willow Grove shindig went well. We enjoyed our first dry, clear Saturday here in a long, long time. We've received 20" of rain in the last month, including 2" Wed night.and Thursday morning . . . . .

From your comments, I think maybe you don't understand what "remain clear of the Bravo" means. It does not mean you can't fly under the shelf. It only means you can't fly INTO the Bravo. UNDER the bravo is not INTO the Bravo.

Edited February 23, 2020 by salty

[Hank]

2 hours ago, salty said:

From your comments, I think maybe you don't understand what "remain clear of the Bravo" means. It does not mean you can't fly under the shelf. It only means you can't fly INTO the Bravo. UNDER the bravo is not INTO the Bravo.

[salty]

10 minutes ago, Hank said:

 

I really have no idea what the issue is. You could fly that course at 4000 feet without talking to anyone if you had adsb. 
 

ok, you’d have to turn left a few miles to avoid that one shelf. Big deal. I bet it’s less than 5 miles longer. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by salty

[salty]

I don’t know your exact course but I show a difference of 2 miles to divert around the bravo in an approximation of the course you showed. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by salty