Looking for a up lock and down lock block for CNC owner produced

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, redcatcher27 said:

Does anyone out there have a good resource for the placard that is plastered atop the down lock block (SB M20-88A-2)?

 

Pretty easy to laser etch that in the block if anodized.   Or go to local trophy store..  

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Raptor05121 said:

Of course my IA is signing it off, my annual is in a few weeks. I was mainly regarding the wording of such an important part imparting a good/bad vibe for potential future buyers. I know *I* won't have a problem with it, but curious if some would rather see something like "drawing on file for copy of LASAR downlock block P/N XXXXXX machined from T606...." versus "replaced with owner-produced". It just seems to vauge to what quality "owner produced" means. Just myself being worrisome about having to explain it later.

You can always keep copies of the part documentation available separate from the logbooks, along with whatever 337s, STCs, 8130s, etc., also exist for the airplane. 

[Anders J]

6 hours ago, redcatcher27 said:

Does anyone out there have a good resource for the placard that is plastered atop the down lock block (SB M20-88A-2)?

 

 Made this, you can take to your local Sign-A-Rama.  Added the dwg file, if you feel you want to make changes.

AndersJ

 

Label.dwg Label.pdf

Edited March 2, 2020 by Anders J

[Ned Gravel]

Payment made and message sent.

[J0nathan225]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:23 AM, Anders J said:

Top of the list reminder:

In conversation with David, we will continue to use the go fund me account to get the orders in.  I have asked David if he could hold off get the production started for one week, to allow everyone who is interested to get your pre-payments in.  Here is the link to the GoFundMe again: https://www.gofundme.com/f/gear-down-lock-block

David will place the order 3/9/2020 - So let's call 3/8/2020 23:00 EST drop-deadline.

When you place your order - please send me a message with your full name, address, email address, and which part you are ordering so we can keep you informed, and I can keep track.  Production time is about 5 weeks.

In an effort of full transparency, here are the cost so you can see what you need to send:

Up Lock Block $305.62 + $25 UPS Ground freight = $330.62 + ($0.30 + 2.9% Go Fund Me fees) = $340.52 = $341.00 (go fund me doesn't allow cents)

Down Lock Block $356.62 + $25 UPS Ground freight = $381.62 + ($0.30 + 2.9% Go Fund Me fees) = $393.00

Up and Down Block $662.24 + $25 UPS Ground freight = $687.24 + ($0.30 + 2.9% Go Fund Me fees) = $707.47 = $708.00 (go fund me doesn't allow cents)

 

Thank you David for getting us this far, and thank you to all who have donated, to facilitate the process.

 

Anders J 

 

PS: David has offered to produce one set and test it on his plane, before producing quantity.  This is to ensure the blocks perform as expected.  This will likely delay delivery by some time.

maybe it's my computer? GFM link is not working. 

[Anders J]

1 hour ago, J0nathan225 said:

maybe it's my computer? GFM link is not working. 

For an unknown reason we have been suspended.  I am working to find out why, and get the issue resolved.  Sorry to all for the issue.

 

AndersJ

[cliffy]

On 3/1/2020 at 6:51 PM, EricJ said:

To add a tiny bit, Mike Busch suggests that the owner should also make a logbook entry documenting the production of the part:  https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_eaa/EAA_2011-08_owner-produced-parts.pdf,   but the two relevant ACs of which I'm aware have no such requirement.   AC 20-62E doesn't say much about documentation, but does suggest capturing things like the manufacturer, certification status, etc., but that is included in the larger context of identifying all replacement parts, not just owner-produced.   AC 23-27, which is specifically about "Parts and Materials Substitutions for Vintage Aircraft", which does include Mooney M20 aircraft, just says in section 13(a), that minor repairs or alterations just require a typical maintenance entry per FAR 43.9(a), i.e., nothing special, just a description of the work done.

There was (he's Gone West now) an FAA guy (I think his name was Bill something) that was the FAA Guru on stuff like this and he had a couple of articles on OPP stuff in which he also said that an entry by the owner that the part was OPP would be needed and then another entry by the installing mechanic who has to determine that it meets regs to install. I did my engine controls this way from McFarland

His info was reproduced and referenced here in MS  Maybe someone can find it, I couldn't. 

[cliffy]

Hey I found his info

 

http://150cessna.tripod.com/obrienonownermadeparts.html

 

Read Question #8

Edited March 4, 2020 by cliffy

[hammdo]

13 hours ago, Anders J said:

For an unknown reason we have been suspended.  I am working to find out why, and get the issue resolved.  Sorry to all for the issue.

 

AndersJ

Resolved yet?

-Don

[N201MKTurbo]

Im at an FAA maintenance seminar. The head of manufacturing from DC is here. 

I asked him if what you are doing is legal, he said it probably isn’t 

BTW, I didn’t give him any info that would lead him here.

He said the big problem is that one machine shop is mass producing parts for installation on a certified aircraft. He said that requires a PMA. He said the regulations are very clear on this.

 

Don't shoot me, I’m just the messenger.

[Igor_U]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

 

He said the big problem is that one machine shop is mass producing parts for installation on a certified aircraft. He said that requires a PMA. He said the regulations are very clear on this.

 

Interesting and not surprising...

I never saw anything to allow for manufacturing replacement part using different material or method (machining vs. casting or fabricating). LASAR's part is machined but they have PMA and they must have approval.  Does anyone know why they don't have parts anymore? I ordered few parts the other day but forgot to ask.

[EricJ]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:54 AM, Raptor05121 said:

Of course my IA is signing it off, my annual is in a few weeks. I was mainly regarding the wording of such an important part imparting a good/bad vibe for potential future buyers. I know *I* won't have a problem with it, but curious if some would rather see something like "drawing on file for copy of LASAR downlock block P/N XXXXXX machined from T606...." versus "replaced with owner-produced". It just seems to vauge to what quality "owner produced" means. Just myself being worrisome about having to explain it later.

New information!   Well, new to me...

Today I was at the same seminar as Rich, and an FAA guy talking about OPP mentioned some relevant references that I had not previously perused.    One useful one is AC 43-18, which is not just about OPP but also about processes for maintainers fabricating parts (which isn't usually a thing), but also includes info about OPP.   It is not a simple read, and not everything is relevant, but it does add some information.   The quality statements should be taken seriously, but indications were that these could be contained fairly simply within the logbook entry of the maintainer.

Regarding owner logbook entry requirements, the guidance for an owner-made entry in the logbook comes from AC 43.13-2B, P87 Par 909.   The context of this paragraph was regarding fabrication of shoulder harness installation bracketry after shoulder harness regulations changed.   So it is written around that particular scenario for OPP, and may not be universal from that standpoint, but does provide context for why some advise that an owner logbook entry should be made.   This is Par 43.13-2B 909.e(1):

"(1) An example of this might be if the owner has discovered a desirable harness attachment bracket in an aircraft similar to his, and he creates a drawing to duplicate this bracket, specifying materials and performance standards. He could then either make the part himself or contract out for the manufacture of the part. When a mechanic installs the part, the maintenance record entry would include the installation information as required from the mechanic, and an entry by the owner that the part was produced under § 21.303(b)(2) by the owner for his aircraft. Note that this regulation provides no authority for the owner to install the part. Furthermore, the mechanic will need to show that the installation meets minimum strength standards through static testing or stress analysis."

Edit: I have no idea why that references 21.303(b)(2), which is about PMA material compliance.   I *think* they meant 21.9(a)(5).

Edited March 6, 2020 by EricJ

[hammdo]

^^^

This is the way I understood it also. If no one has the part, manufacture is out of business, and we follow the guidelines, we should be able to do this - otherwise our planes are grounded for good.

 

let face it, a salvaged one is not gonna be any better in most cases.

-Don

[Sabremech]

7 minutes ago, hammdo said:

^^^

This is the way I understood it also. If no one has the part, manufacture is out of business, and we follow the guidelines, we should be able to do this - otherwise our planes are grounded for good.

 

let face it, a salvaged one is not gonna be any better in most cases.

-Don

Hi Don,

I hold PMA and am comfortable with what we have planned. We will dot our I’s and cross our T’s and comply with owner produced parts to keep these birds flying. 
Thanks,

David

[hammdo]

Ditto! 

-Don 

[N201MKTurbo]

After all the sessions, it seems like the only contention was with what data you are using to make the parts. It seems to imply that the design data needs to be approved. But when I asked the FAA guy what regulation specifies that he kind of mumbled.

I think the best thing he said was at the end, he said “if there’s no problem then there’s no problem. If there is a problem then there is a problem!”

 

[Piotrekpdx]

Looks like I’m late to the party. When the gf page is back up, is it too late to contribute to the drawings and to order a down lock block?

Thank you!

[carusoam]

12 minutes ago, Piotrekpdx said:

Looks like I’m late to the party. When the gf page is back up, is it too late to contribute to the drawings and to order a down lock block?

Thank you!

Message for @Anders J and @Sabremech ^^^

-a-

[Piotrekpdx]

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Message for @Anders J and @Sabremech ^^^

-a-

Thank you! Will do. 

[Piotrekpdx]

Just now, Piotrekpdx said:

Thank you! Will do. 

Sorry misread as an encouragement to message A & S. I’ll wait for their response here as I’m sure others who just see the thread might be interested in their answer. 
 

[carusoam]

Just now, Piotrekpdx said:

Sorry misread as an encouragement to message A & S. I’ll wait for their response here as I’m sure others who just see the thread might be interested in their answer. 
 

It is all three...

1) a message for the organizers of the project... The blue boxes are indications that they have been alerted... a bit cryptic...

2) Contacting them directly is A good timely way to communicate... timing is everything...

3) For the next Mooney pilot to come along... plenty of detail for them as well...

Best regards,

-a-

[takair]

On 3/4/2020 at 10:05 AM, Anders J said:

For an unknown reason we have been suspended.  I am working to find out why, and get the issue resolved.  Sorry to all for the issue.

 

AndersJ

Hi Anders

i just checked and looks like problem still exists.  Was going to order one down lock block.  Did they tell you what is going on?

[takair]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:35 AM, carusoam said:

Message for @Anders J and @Sabremech ^^^

-a-

Dave, Anders, 

Are you still taking orders?  The go fund me page is still broken.  I had seen orders would be accepted until the 8th?  Is this correct?

thanks,

 

[CWM20f]

Trying to get on GFM page too but cant.  Need the down lock block.  Deadline is tomorrow so guess I’ll keep checking. 

chuck

[Sabremech]

41 minutes ago, CWM20f said:

Trying to get on GFM page too but cant.  Need the down lock block.  Deadline is tomorrow so guess I’ll keep checking. 

chuck

Hi Chuck,

Send a message to AndersJ as the go fund me isn’t working. He’s set up a paypal method.

Thanks