Mooney handling characteristics/flight near Napa CA

[eskalada]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this site and would really appreciate feedback on this question. I am looking to purchase an M20J. I am extremely excited about finally owning a Mooney, it fits the bill In every way. This is my question. Many of my non Mooney pilot friends tell me that Mooneys are great aircraft but handle like trucks, meaning, I believe, that pitch and roll inputs are on the heavy side, as compared to a Bonanza for example. In other words, they are fast and efficient  aircraft that are not that fun to fly. Is there any truth to this statement, or is it just jealous Bonanza pilots trying to find an edge over Mooneys. I would assume that if Mooneys had this issue, after so many decades In production, it would have been addressed in later models. But I have heard this from multiple sources so I thought it would be good to bring the question here. Thank you in advance for your feedback.

[alextstone]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site and would really appreciate feedback on this question. I am looking to purchase an M20J. I am extremely excited about finally owning a Mooney, it fits the bill In every way. This is my question. Many of my non Mooney pilot friends tell me that Mooneys are great aircraft but handle like trucks, meaning, I believe, that pitch and roll inputs are on the heavy side, as compared to a Bonanza for example. In other words, they are fast and efficient  aircraft that are not that fun to fly. Is there any truth to this statement, or is it just jealous Bonanza pilots trying to find an edge over Mooneys. I would assume that if Mooneys had this issue, after so many decades In production, it would have been addressed in later models. But I have heard this from multiple sources so I thought it would be good to bring the question here. Thank you in advance for your feedback.

Shhh don't tell your friends the truth..Mooneys are for pilots who love to feel a direct connection to the plane, to wear it as it were as opposed to those pilots who's back seat passengers make the buying decisions.

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[Niko182]

Bo - light on the roll and the pitch. Heavy on the rudder

M20 - light on the pitch and rudder. Heavy on the roll.

I will say that the mooney does have a very nice roll feel to it below 130 KIAS. In cruise its pretty stiff however.

 

This is however my opinion.

[Skates97]

I guess I don't understand the comments about the controls being "heavy" because I don't have much experience in anything else. I've got my training time in Cherokees and almost two hours in a Cessna 172 in Hawaii and everything else is my Mooney. I don't feel like they are heavy, I would say responsive. The direct connection between the yoke and the control surfaces makes it feel tight, like driving a sports car as opposed to driving a Buick. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, eskalada.

All you need now is to hangout with new friends... 

Fortunately, around here there are a few thousand new 2U friends...

You don’t have to give away the old ones... we’re not a cult...

trying to convince your old friends to give up their high wing, or low and slow, or tail dragger, or even a V-tail... isn’t worth the argument...  those things make great other planes to have in your oversized hangar...

Best regards,

-a-

[OHAEDO]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site and would really appreciate feedback on this question. I am looking to purchase an M20J. I am extremely excited about finally owning a Mooney, it fits the bill In every way. This is my question. Many of my non Mooney pilot friends tell me that Mooneys are great aircraft but handle like trucks, meaning, I believe, that pitch and roll inputs are on the heavy side, as compared to a Bonanza for example. In other words, they are fast and efficient  aircraft that are not that fun to fly. Is there any truth to this statement, or is it just jealous Bonanza pilots trying to find an edge over Mooneys. I would assume that if Mooneys had this issue, after so many decades In production, it would have been addressed in later models. But I have heard this from multiple sources so I thought it would be good to bring the question here. Thank you in advance for your feedback.

I can’t speak for other airplanes. I bought my MOONEY on the advice of a guy w over 5k hours flying everything in GA. I’m glad I listened. It’s super responsive, fast, a pilots plane. Doesn’t shake in the clouds, solid platform. Landings are a breeze if you manage the energy well. Just my thoughts.


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[carusoam]

If I could only have one plane...

I’d follow Ohaedo’s advice... make mine an Ultra!  

Best regards,

-a-

[David Lloyd]

If you get out of a Bonanza into a Mooney, you think the controls are heavy.  If you get out of a Mooney and into a Bonanza, you will marvel how light the controls are.  A couple hours of flying and you think the Mooney is stable and easy to fly, the Bonanza needs to be watched every second.  After 10 or 25 hours in either, you wonder what the question was.

[KLRDMD]

25 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

Bo - light on the roll and the pitch. Heavy on the rudder

Heavy on the rudder? Most, including mine have aileron-rudder interconnects. I pretty much never even have to use the rudder in turns. A 285HP Bonanza takes more rudder on take off than a 180-210 HP Mooney, of course but a 285 HP Cessna does too.

[Niko182]

Just now, KLRDMD said:

Heavy on the rudder? Most, including mine have aileron-rudder interconnects. I pretty much never even have to use the rudder in turns. A 285HP Bonanza takes more rudder on take off than a 180-210 HP Mooney, of course but a 285 HP Cessna does too.

This was just my opinion on flying one with a 550. I thought the ailerons and pitch was nice. Rudder was a bit heavy. Also the tail wag was quite a bit more noticable than the mooney. Both are fun to fly. You put me in either and i wont complain.

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, eskalada said:

I am new to this site and would really appreciate feedback on this question. I am looking to purchase an M20J. I am extremely excited about finally owning a Mooney, it fits the bill In every way. This is my question. Many of my non Mooney pilot friends tell me that Mooneys are great aircraft but handle like trucks, meaning, I believe, that pitch and roll inputs are on the heavy side, as compared to a Bonanza for example.

Any* certified four place airplane handles like a truck compared to a Bonanza. I have well over 1,000 hours in Mooneys, have owned four and also have many hundreds of hours in Beech products, have owned three. So I have a reasonable background to compare them. They're different. Yes, the Bonanza is lighter on the controls and a pure joy to fly. But the Mooney is stable and solid. If my last Mooney had another 225 lb or more useful load I would still have it. All airplanes are compromises. Pick the compromises you can live with.

* Bellanca Super Viking excepted.

[eskalada]

Thank you for your replies. At this point it’s clear that I need to get into one and actually fly it, not just once around the pattern. If there is a Mooney owner in the greater SF Bay Area that would be open for a flight, I’m good for fuel and lunch, plus good conversation! These planes are very hard to find to rent, that’s why I’m putting this out there.

[PT20J]

I am not a handling qualities expert, but I've flown a lot of airplanes from a C-150 to a DC-3, and I've owned two M20Js. The Mooney is a cross country machine. It's a good, stable IFR platform. It doesn't have any bad habits. The control feel is a bit heavier than some, but not overly so, and the control feel seems to me to be well harmonized between all three axes. Everyone always raves about the Bonanza's handling, but keep in mind that responsiveness and stability are opposite design constraints. Bonanza's have a bit of a reputation for higher workload on instruments. Also, Bonanza's have a lot more dutch roll in turbulence than Mooney's which can make for an uncomfortable ride.

So, if you are looking for a machine to do wifferdills a Mooney may not be the best choice. But, if you are looking for an IFR traveling machine, it's a great flying -- and very efficient -- airplane.

Hope this helps,

Skip

[Andy95W]

If you go flying in a Mooney in order to feel how heavy the controls are, then you’ll feel how heavy the controls are. All I can add is that after a short while (like about 100 hours) all you have to do is think about where you want the Mooney to go and it just seems to do it. You don’t even notice the controls or that you’re even giving control inputs.

And on the other hand, I’ve flown 4 different Beechcraft types and they were all sweet to fly. 

[larrynimmo]

I have flown lots of airplanes over the years...my mooney (M20J) the empennage (tail section) has to be  trimmed for flight or it takes tons of effort to control the plane.

[gsxrpilot]

@Skates97 said it best IMO. The controls in a Mooney are stiff just like the controls in 911 Carrera or a BMW M3 are stiff. Of course the seating position is similar as well. 

If you'll send me your contact details in a PM, I can put you in touch with a M20J at KSQL.

[bfreelove]

I'm based at Sonoma Sky Park if you're interested in having a look at / flight in mine, just send a PM.

[Immelman]

I quite enjoy the handling of my E. Count me as one who prefers the pushrods vs cables. Once you have your Mooney flying along trimmed well it my as well be on rails.

The one thing I am not too enamored with is our iddy-biddy rudder. Mooney lengthened the rudder somewhat in later models, though I have little time in them for a direct comparison. Its not terrible, but I feel like I need more in strong or gusty winds, forward slips, and that also results in a bit of a jumpy handling tracking centerline once the nosewheel is down.

Of the airplanes I have flown, I thoroughly enjoyed my time in a larger turboprop Beech which gave me a lot of respect for their engineering and handling. If I had the means and were shopping for an airplane today I would probably go Bonanza, and I will get all the flames for this but its because we are now a family of 3+dog and a short-body Mooney -- as does any 4 place airplane -- runs out of space quickly. I've been very happy with flying a Mooney for the reasons I first bought it for (2 people, traveling, some occasional unpaved).

I would rather not own a PA-28 or C172 of any sort.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Immelman

[pirate]

3 hours ago, eskalada said:

Thank you for your replies. At this point it’s clear that I need to get into one and actually fly it, not just once around the pattern. If there is a Mooney owner in the greater SF Bay Area that would be open for a flight, I’m good for fuel and lunch, plus good conversation! These planes are very hard to find to rent, that’s why I’m putting this out there.

Boy that’s going to be one hell of a expensive lunch, once you fly a 201 you gonna be hooked and buy one..............
 

[bradp]

Paul is correct.  You know how American, Japanese and German sedans all have a different steering feel but all get the job done...? Mooney is like a 3 series BMW - stiff but totally responsive.  It takes a little force but almost no actual movement to roll during cruise / at speed. 

[eskalada]

This is great news because BMW M3 is my favorite car! I really appreciate all of the feedback. In the end it’s a personal choice. I’m sure that  once I get behind the controls it will all make sense.

[Ibra]

16 hours ago, eskalada said:

This is my question. Many of my non Mooney pilot friends tell me that Mooneys are great aircraft but handle like trucks, meaning, I believe, that pitch and roll inputs are on the heavy side, as compared to a Bonanza for example. In other words, they are fast and efficient  aircraft that are not that fun to fly. Is there any truth to this statement, or is it just jealous Bonanza pilots trying to find an edge over Mooneys

Depends on speeds at 150KTS it is just beautiful: stiff with two fingers

Only handling issue is hand flying it at slow speeds < 85kts, it's drag curve is well pronounced and it just does not like well balanced flight there, but you are not buying a Mooney for this? or you at least should be gear/flap down on final 

But you do get same on other aircraft: Beech, Cirrus...It is not like they makes well balanced 60 degrees turns at 60kts neither

[skydvrboy]

I guess I've driven too many old trucks for this analogy to work.  When I think of something handling like a truck, it means that you have to turn the wheel 90 degrees before you get any response at all.  That would definitely NEVER be used to describe a Mooney.

To me, the Mooney handles more like a go-kart.  It takes a fair bit of force to turn the yoke very far, but any tiny movement makes the vehicle start to turn.

[steingar]

Yes, the push rod controls on the Mooney do make for a heavy control feel.  Doesn't matter in the slightest.  You fly it for a couple hours you forget it completely.  A Mooney will never be as much fun to fly as a Decathlon or any other lighter aircraft.  But I wouldn't fly a Decathlon to Florida either.  For what it is the Mooney flies just fine.

[bonal]

5 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

I guess I've driven too many old trucks for this analogy to work.  When I think of something handling like a truck, it means that you have to turn the wheel 90 degrees before you get any response at all.  That would definitely NEVER be used to describe a Mooney.

To me, the Mooney handles more like a go-kart.  It takes a fair bit of force to turn the yoke very far, but any tiny movement makes the vehicle start to turn.

I love this comparison. As someone that spent a number of years racing sprint karts the steering is very heavy but nothing short of an F1 car is more responsive. I never even think about weather control is heavy or light it just is what it is and becomes second nature even when doing steep banks just turn trim and let go the yoke pressure  and around you go. As others have said the Mooney just feels tight, think it and it responds.