Mark89114 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I think my issue with this altimeter (KEA-130 - whatever installed with KFC 225) has finally reached the point where I need to do something. The readout to ATC is now not working at all. My understanding is $1200 to overhaul/repair which seems steep and we all know BK is not interested in economical repairs. My thoughts were to just install a blind encoder for a couple hundred, but my internet research on other forums says this isn't a legal alternative? I can't image why. I am also unclear why if lots of people are buzzing around in airspace reading out an altimeter reading based on 29.92, why would this box transmit the exact altitude? Or is that an incorrect assumption about what this encoding altimeter does? Based on .5" setting that gives a readout difference of 500 feet between a 29.92 and aircraft sending out an encoded altitude of 30.42? ATC doesn't know where the data is coming from and therefore would have traffic/terrain warnings? I have had this problem before ADSB install, so nothing related to that. I had it looked at it years ago and they spend several hundred dollars running altitude up and down and no issues found (of course) and the problem seemed to go away but now is no longer working. Who would you recommend looks at repairing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I think most modern transponders have this function, when I found out mine was bad and would cost $500 to replace, I just bought the KT74, problem resolved.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 It’s not legal to use a blind encoder for the sole output because the 225 uses the corrected information for the altitude preselect (and baro changes during level flight). The factory/avionics shops tend to attach too many things to the 130. You might need to add a blind encoder or use another source mentioned above to free it up after overhaul. I have a perfect one coming out but not until February so that won’t help too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Notes on 29.92” standard altimeter setting... This is done for aircraft separation... ATC’s ground based computers combine your location, with actual altimeter settings for where you are, to read your altitude in flight... Typically our altimeters have a box connected to it, or internal... that encodes the altitude using the standard 29.92... this info gets sent to the transponder... Some transponders display the altitude...that has been encoded... my KT76C does... with ADSB, the transponder is sending altitude, and WAAS gps location... So is there a 50cent solution independent of your altimeter to encode the pressure altitude Possibly... what transponder are you using? And what encoded altitude is it looking for? Some BK autopilots are connected to the static source and use that for maintaining and changing altitude... Altitude pre-select, is another BK box... I’m not sure what altitude it is using for arriving at a target altitude properly... The BK system is highly integrated, even though it looks like independent and easily replaceable devices... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I was having problems with my altimeter transmitting the correct altitude to ATC between 8000 and 12000 feet. My shop installed a Garmin encoder that connected to my transponder/gps and that solved the problem without any expensive overhaul. Long story, but my shop didn't charge me for the encoder but I believe it's a few hundred dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Encoders transmit (via the transponder) pressure altitude (referenced to 29.92). ATC computers know the correct altimeter setting and make the correction. This is done so that ATC has an altitude that is not dependent on the pilot getting the altimeter setting correct. Skip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Mark, If you have a KEA130 you have an altimeter that is known for its problems. If you have a KEA 130A you have a much improved altimeter. I would suggest if you have the former look for the latter. The KEA 130A in my 1999 Bravo. Has not had any problems and passes the semi annual checks without problems.. It is tested too 25K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 19 hours ago, Mark89114 said: I think my issue with this altimeter (KEA-130 - whatever installed with KFC 225) has finally reached the point where I need to do something. The readout to ATC is now not working at all. My understanding is $1200 to overhaul/repair which seems steep and we all know BK is not interested in economical repairs. My thoughts were to just install a blind encoder for a couple hundred, but my internet research on other forums says this isn't a legal alternative? I can't image why. I am also unclear why if lots of people are buzzing around in airspace reading out an altimeter reading based on 29.92, why would this box transmit the exact altitude? Or is that an incorrect assumption about what this encoding altimeter does? Based on .5" setting that gives a readout difference of 500 feet between a 29.92 and aircraft sending out an encoded altitude of 30.42? ATC doesn't know where the data is coming from and therefore would have traffic/terrain warnings? I have had this problem before ADSB install, so nothing related to that. I had it looked at it years ago and they spend several hundred dollars running altitude up and down and no issues found (of course) and the problem seemed to go away but now is no longer working. Who would you recommend looks at repairing this? Look for a broken or intermittent grey code wire before overhauling your KEA-130. Since you own a 2000 M20R (Serial number 243) I bet you already have a KEA-130A. I used to own serial number 255 and it had a 130A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Update on what I learned....hopefully I retransmit this all correctly. An encoding altimeter is still sending pressure altitude of 29.92 back to the transponder. The KEA-130 is expensive to repair. As I understand it is basically 2 separate altimeters, one set by the pilot and the output from that used for preselect and holding altitude, the other function is providing the transponder with an altitude. This is the function going sideways on me. The avionics shop who is local, is questioning why the shop who installed the GTX345 didn't just install a GAE-12, which is an encoding altimeter. They never offered it to me as I didn't know what I didn't know and I guess that would have driven up the price quote as a static test would have had to be done. The cost of the GAE-12 is only $275 plus a few hours for installation and a static test. @Lancecasper the local shop was not impressed with using the "gray code" wire to my GTX345, for what ever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Update on what I learned....hopefully I retransmit this all correctly. An encoding altimeter is still sending pressure altitude of 29.92 back to the transponder. The KEA-130 is expensive to repair. As I understand it is basically 2 separate altimeters, one set by the pilot and the output from that used for preselect and holding altitude, the other function is providing the transponder with an altitude. This is the function going sideways on me. The avionics shop who is local, is questioning why the shop who installed the GTX345 didn't just install a GAE-12, which is an encoding altimeter. They never offered it to me as I didn't know what I didn't know and I guess that would have driven up the price quote as a static test would have had to be done. The cost of the GAE-12 is only $275 plus a few hours for installation and a static test. @Lancecasper the local shop was not impressed with using the "gray code" wire to my GTX345, for what ever reason. Yes the GAE-12 encoder for the GTX345 is the way to go, however I believe you need the KEA-130A for your altitude pre-select on your KFC225 autopilot.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yes I am going to leave the KEA-130 as the altitude functions for the AP work, it is just the Mode C that is causing issues, apparently this is a known "feature".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 I have something I just pulled out. No backing plate as I used that in the skyview install. The trig transponder has the encoder in the head unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbender10 Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 Hi all, I'm adding to this string because the MSC in Las Vegas alerted me to an issue with my KEA-130A following an extended maintenance period. Following the install of a 2nd GI275 (HSI; I already had an ADI w/ AP and back up battery for AI), the KEA-130A failed the static test. They claim despite all efforts to eliminate leaks (new fittings, teflon tape), the KEA-130A failed the tests. The plane has been in MSCs for maintenance for 10 of the last 13 months since the KEA-130A did pass static checks. Also relevant... I have a GTX345 transponder and still have the KFC150 autopilot. The shop recommends I buy an overhauled KEA-130A for $2,300. The ONLY reason I need the KEA-130A is for the altitude input to the KFC150. What are my options? Is there a converter that can translate the GI275 altitude signal to the greycode input the KFC150 requires? Or send the KEA-130A in for overhaul, or "INOP" the altimeter and KFC150 altogether, or upgrade to a GFC500 AP (I'm broke though after paying for so many upgrades and repairs since buying my plane 15 months ago). Ideas welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, bcbender10 said: Hi all, I'm adding to this string because the MSC in Las Vegas alerted me to an issue with my KEA-130A following an extended maintenance period. Following the install of a 2nd GI275 (HSI; I already had an ADI w/ AP and back up battery for AI), the KEA-130A failed the static test. They claim despite all efforts to eliminate leaks (new fittings, teflon tape), the KEA-130A failed the tests. The plane has been in MSCs for maintenance for 10 of the last 13 months since the KEA-130A did pass static checks. Also relevant... I have a GTX345 transponder and still have the KFC150 autopilot. The shop recommends I buy an overhauled KEA-130A for $2,300. The ONLY reason I need the KEA-130A is for the altitude input to the KFC150. What are my options? Is there a converter that can translate the GI275 altitude signal to the greycode input the KFC150 requires? Or send the KEA-130A in for overhaul, or "INOP" the altimeter and KFC150 altogether, or upgrade to a GFC500 AP (I'm broke though after paying for so many upgrades and repairs since buying my plane 15 months ago). Ideas welcome. This thing? https://www.seaerospace.com/sales/product/BendixKing/KEA-130A Something isn’t making sense... GI275s should be able to send data to your KFC150... Got to find the requirements... compatibility of devices have been updated over time... Big G appears to put BK devices last in the compatibility exercises... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbender10 Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, carusoam said: This thing? https://www.seaerospace.com/sales/product/BendixKing/KEA-130A Something isn’t making sense... GI275s should be able to send data to your KFC150... Got to find the requirements... compatibility of devices have been updated over time... Big G appears to put BK devices last in the compatibility exercises... Best regards, -a- Yes. Exactly that thing. Part number matches what the shop sent me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 See if @Alan Fox has a KEA 130A... in his giant pile of BK discards take-outs... That could buy you a bunch of time while plotting the next steps... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbender10 Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 Thanks A! @Alan Fox Do you have any KEA 130As? and at what rate? Lone Mountain Aviation, being a Mooney Service Center, strongly discourages owner-provided parts. They typically require purchase through them. If the parts come from somewhere else, they must be properly tagged (I'm not sure of the specific requirements, but I'm sure an A&P avionics would...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, bcbender10 said: Thanks A! @Alan Fox Do you have any KEA 130As? and at what rate? Lone Mountain Aviation, being a Mooney Service Center, strongly discourages owner-provided parts. They typically require purchase through them. If the parts come from somewhere else, they must be properly tagged (I'm not sure of the specific requirements, but I'm sure an A&P avionics would...) The other thing to consider is these products have "mod numbers" which might or might not means something. Apparently it isnt easy to look them up without being a BK service center. I have a Mod 3 altimeter and the used one i was looking at was only Mod 2....would it still work? I have no idea. Just another data point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Mark89114 said: The other thing to consider is these products have "mod numbers" which might or might not means something. Apparently it isnt easy to look them up without being a BK service center. I have a Mod 3 altimeter and the used one i was looking at was only Mod 2....would it still work? I have no idea. Just another data point. That’s the cool thing about using a re-seller that has experience... Some of the mods are incredibly important... The buyer of pre-flown devices needs to know this before committing to the buy... especially if you make a living out of buying these boxes... Often, Alan gives insight on things being sold around here... getting something updated can cost more than buying the right one... Getting more complex by the day... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbender10 Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 @Mark89114Thanks for the tip. I had no idea about the different mod issue. @carusoamYes, it's always complicated when mixing competing technologies (especially Garmin and BK) in GA planes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Fox Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 I have a KEA 130a , as removed , 750.00 with a 30 day guarantee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 Note for @Mark89114 just drifted in... (above) -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbender10 Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 Closing the loop on this... Shop owner had the shop lead avionics manager personally look into this. Magically, issue was resolved with existing parts in place and it works perfectly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z00mie Posted July 1, 2021 Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Curious, what was the solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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