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Accident in Johnson County Kansas Mooney M20 S


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3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I agree and maybe even, in addition to that, not enough rudder since the Eagle does not have rudder trim. I've said it before but I can't imagine the 310hp conversion without rudder trim. In a Bravo which only has 270hp you will only forget to put the rudder trim far right one time. 

Especially when the Eagle is loaded on the light side, you really need a decent amount of right rudder. I don't know what I'm missing with no rudder trim, but It's been fine for me without it.

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13 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I don’t know if the Eagle has a smaller rudder or if it has limited authority/deflection vs a J model.  Maybe they are identical. 

I guess the eagle has the same tail as a J and a K however that is a guess. I know it has the same tail as a bravo, acclaim, and ovation.

As for the rudder trim, id guess its the same debate thats been going on with the yaw damper for the gfc500. Its not needed, but once you fly with it, you want it.

Edited by Niko182
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Notes...

1) Long body tail feathers are a bit different than mid body...

2) They are scaled appropriately to meet the requirements of the LB... it got redesigned without the springs too...

3) Rudder trim... does the same thing as your right foot, but holds it pretty steady...

4) If you have good multi tasking skills... you can save the dough required to have the extra Servo motor and attaching hardware... :)

5) Climbing out near Vx, with the required attitude, does take coordination... smooth inputs are good....

6) If you wanted to add rudder trim... the new Garmin 4 Servo APs are worth considering...

7) It would have been really nice to have a modern G1000 system collecting all the Air data... with GPS data, it is close, just not the same...

 

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 1 year later...
On 3/3/2021 at 11:02 PM, takair said:

When Cessna had the seat sliding ADs, one of the solutions was an inertial reel strap mounted to the seat structure with the strap end attached to the floor structure.  Looked much like an inertial reel shoulder harness, just doing the opposite job.  Cessna even paid for them for some time.  Under normal operation, the seat slides back like there is nothing there.  Under accelerated loads, it prevents the seat from sliding.  My friend has one in her 177 and  it seems to be an elegant solution to the problem.  Can’t find the manufacturer now and I don’t think it was ever certified for anything but Cessnas.  

One I had on the 210 was connected to the seat unlock bar, it wasn’t an inertia reel, it was locked anytime the bar to lift the pins wasn’t pulled up, the pins pulled up first so it was easy to check if was working

It came with the airplane so I don’t know source of supply

I’m sure as it’s such an obvious safety improvement it would be an easy field approval if you show it’s bolted to enough structure.

This is it, I’d be surprised if it’s not still available

ourpdf.pdf?as_id=28312

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34 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

For some reason everyone overlooks that he was on prescription muscle relaxants and prescription anti-nausea that is usually given to chemotherapy cancer patients. Very strange and not disclosed why.  It seems reasonable that these drugs interfered with the pilot being at the top of his game.

I agree with what you’re saying, however, Zofran (ondansetron) is one of the most popular antiemetics prescribed. The vast majority of people taking it don’t have a cancer diagnosis. I wouldn’t read too much into that.

The other meds certainly may have played a factor and if he was taking muscle relaxers, cough syrup and nausea medications then he certainly might have been sick at the time as well. I agree, that if he’d done an “IMSAFE” on himself he probably would have failed. 

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We had a Mooney Ovation "pancake" in on a botched go around, both occupants survived ...
the issue was the the same, full up trim that pitched aggressively nose high when power was added to go around,
in this case, the plane was behind the power curve (hanging on the prop). He couldn't climb and he couldn't push the nose over -- the plane eventually settling into a thicket of saplings and brush.  

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As much as I liked the extra 30hp on the Ovation that I had with the 310hp STC, I can see how this could happen with someone with virtually no time in the airplane. It may have been helpful, under the supervision of his CFI in the transition, to let him see or feel what an out of trim take-off feels like, since it's bound to happen once eventually. And who knows? Maybe he was shown that.

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On 3/5/2021 at 9:18 PM, 1980Mooney said:

 

I suppose rudder trim would be a nice luxury but it’s also been fine for me without it. 

Bunch of 1300 HP and higher crop dusters flying around without rudder trim, sure it would be nice like power steering in a car is, but it’s not needed

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