Want to play a game?

[ArtVandelay]

It's fine to shoot down ideas, but what is the alternative.  Installing a Legacy system?

My point is if OP is planning to upgrade future, he should not make equipment decisions based on marketing hype or promises.

Remember Avidyne DFC90 autopilot, there was a lot excitement, and faint promises they would add Mooney to equipment list.

If you put your eggs in that basket, you still be waiting.

 

If OP is truly serious, I would only consider solutions that have been approved. I would not wait on vaporware. Because like DFC90 fans, you might be waiting a loooonnnnnggggg time.

 

 

Tom

[ArtVandelay]

So, just to make sure I understand and I am truly not trying to undermine your thought here, but you think whatever is available now, go for it!? I understand your point and it is very well taken, but just buy what is available now no matter what is on the horizon? Then why have these types of discussions and why have research of the newest things coming out soon?

Yes, because some things on the horizon are mirages.
Avidyne DFC90 for the Mooney.
BKs G5 like box (its proposed name escapes me).
Trio

If it’s a discussion what you would like to see, I’m with you.
If it’s a discussion of what you want to do with the panel next year...then I would stick to what’s available today.


Tom

[Yetti]

56 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

My point is if OP is planning to upgrade future, he should not make equipment decisions based on marketing hype or promises.

Remember Avidyne DFC90 autopilot, there was a lot excitement, and faint promises they would add Mooney to equipment list.

If you put your eggs in that basket, you still be waiting.

 

If OP is truly serious, I would only consider solutions that have been approved. I would not wait on vaporware. Because like DFC90 fans, you might be waiting a loooonnnnnggggg time.

 

 

Tom

My point is what AP have been approved for his model Mooney?   Name names.

[ArtVandelay]

10 minutes ago, Yetti said:

My point is what AP have been approved for his model Mooney?   Name names.

GFC 500, I know you can preorder the Trutrak, but that violates my rule.

[Baker Avionics]

57 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Yes, because some things on the horizon are mirages.
Avidyne DFC90 for the Mooney.
BKs G5 like box (its proposed name escapes me).
Trio

If it’s a discussion what you would like to see, I’m with you.
If it’s a discussion of what you want to do with the panel next year...then I would stick to what’s available today.


Tom

I totally agree, as stated before, however the units you reference are one items that are really not viable. The DFC90 uses STec servo's and is really the brains of the system. How many Mooney's are equipped with STec 55 series servos? Think about their business model and how that makes sense. BK and a "box like G5", again why try and compete with a company like Aspen who has the E5 that is superior to the G5 system and concentrate on that single unit to make little money after the investment. They have an ROI just as you do as an aircraft owner. I feel you are a Garmin Die-hard, which is not a bad thing. Just know that companies have budgets as do aircraft owners. 

[ArtVandelay]

Just now, Baker Avionics said:

I totally agree, as stated before, however the units you reference are one items that are really not viable. The DFC90 uses STec servo's and is really the brains of the system. How many Mooney's are equipped with STec 55 series servos? Think about their business model and how that makes sense. BK and a "box like G5", again why try and compete with a company like Aspen who has the E5 that is superior to the G5 system and concentrate on that single unit to make little money after the investment. They have an ROI just as you do as an aircraft owner. I feel you are a Garmin Die-hard, which is not a bad thing. Just know that companies have budgets as do aircraft owners. 

Understand, but your ROI will be negative if you cannot get products to market, that decision should be make before product development starts. I like competition, but I really hate lies.

FYI I have a non G: engine monitor, transponder, audio panel FWIW.  

But G does a better job getting products to market.

[toto]

Definitely go with Century. 

You can get a brand new Century 2000 today, tried and true and available for the J model. 

https://www.centuryflight.com/products/systems/century-2000-autopilot.html

It's only 20 grand from Sarasota (plus another 5k or so depending on which vacuum direction instrument you want).

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/century-2000

I suspect you could get this installed for 10k or so - we're talking only 35 AMU for the whole shebang. 

[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

My point is if OP is planning to upgrade future, he should not make equipment decisions based on marketing hype or promises.

Remember Avidyne DFC90 autopilot, there was a lot excitement, and faint promises they would add Mooney to equipment list.

If you put your eggs in that basket, you still be waiting.

 

If OP is truly serious, I would only consider solutions that have been approved. I would not wait on vaporware. Because like DFC90 fans, you might be waiting a loooonnnnnggggg time.

 

 

Tom

I would temper your comment a bit.

I think it is just fine to wait on a piece of equipment that is currently available but just not for a particular airplane.  That would include Garmin and TruTrak autopilots.

What the OP might not want to wait on would be equipment that is currently not available for ANY aircraft.

The Dynon autopilot kind of fits in between those two extremes.  As far as I know, their autopilot is not currently approved for any certified aircraft.  But they do have them in experimental aircraft.

Our reasons for going with the GFC500 (which we waited on for 18 months) were:

1.  Only system that included an electric trim option.  All the others say they can do auto-trim, but you have to bring your own trim system.  Why would I want to maintain my BK trim system?  The cost of maintaining that system is the reason we got rid of our KFC200 in the first place.

2.  Only system that can currently LEGALLY couple to an approach and fly to minimums.

3.  Human interface (GMC507) is much easier to understand than remembering  how to use multi-function buttons used on the TT.

The other systems will probably get #2 eventually, but who knows when?

Patience grasshopper.

[Yetti]

19 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

1.  Only system that included an electric trim option.  All the others say they can do auto-trim, but you have to bring your own trim system.  Why would I want to maintain my BK trim system?  The cost of maintaining that system is the reason we got rid of our KFC200 in the first place.

Dynon Certified manual states they don't do trim.   Interesting enough it would be pretty easy to put a trim servo on the chain between the trim wheel and junction angle drive.   A tempting experiment.   But there are still so many wires to connect first.

The other advanced functions that is nor really being discussed. Is Engine Monitor Plus.   Most engine monitors only do that and fuel.  The Avidyne adds flaps, gear, every other warning light and beyond.

[Baker Avionics]

52 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Understand, but your ROI will be negative if you cannot get products to market, that decision should be make before product development starts. I like competition, but I really hate lies.

FYI I have a non G: engine monitor, transponder, audio panel FWIW.  

But G does a better job getting products to market.

I couldn't agree more....to an extent. There is a difference between putting products out on the market and putting test, quality products on the market. 

[Yetti]

Also with the Dynon you will be getting an annunciator.    Have not read up up on it, but saw Flap overspeed and gear overspeed.    For those times when you wonder why the plane is going so slow.   The way we do this with Software is a feature list comparison.   Then a price.    Starting with the price will cause features to be missed.

[MoonFlyer68]

On 12/27/2019 at 10:32 AM, Bob - S50 said:

 

The Dynon autopilot kind of fits in between those two extremes.  As far as I know, their autopilot is not currently approved for any certified aircraft.  But they do have them in experimental aircraft.

While it is still a very short list, the complete Dynon system including autopilot is approved for some certified airplanes.  If memory serves the C-172 is approved as well as a few others.  It is all on the website.  I am not sure when they added it, but they are once again listing the Mooney as "in process" with an expected 2020 approval.  They even added a progress bar next to it.  Unfortunately the progress bar is only about 1/5 of the way there.  Fingers crossed.

[LANCECASPER]

On 12/27/2019 at 10:32 AM, Bob - S50 said:

The Dynon autopilot kind of fits in between those two extremes.  As far as I know, their autopilot is not currently approved for any certified aircraft.  But they do have them in experimental aircraft.

The Dynon autopilot is not vaporware.

 

[ArtVandelay]

The Dynon autopilot is not vaporware.

It is for a Mooney, at least for now.


Tom

[gsxrpilot]

Here's the reason I wouldn't wait for anything promised, rather would upgrade with what's available now...

It seems the delivery of new avionics is measured in dogs years. For every year the manufacturer says it will take to be STC'd, expect seven years.

And the clock is ticking on my medical. I'm 52 now and so there aren't many dog years left in my flying life. I don't want to waste any of them waiting for Garmin, BK, Genesis, Dynon,  Aspen, etc.

This is why I advocate for buying the airplane that is ready to fly today, rather than buying one that is a "good platform to upgrade." I'm all in favor of upgrading, and I certainly have upgraded my 252. I'm still upgrading it. But it's flying just fine today with it's fully coupled KFC150, EDM900, etc. I'm not waiting on anything to fly. When stuff becomes available, I'll look, evaluate, and possibly buy/upgrade with it.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

It is for a Mooney, at least for now.


Tom

And I already mentioned on the first post I made way back on page one of this post that the Dynon autopilot is awaiting certification for the Mooney.  Someone else on this page (three) said the autopilot didn't even exist yet. My post with the Dynon autopilot flying the 172I was showing that yes it does exist in other airframes and more on the way.

[David Lloyd]

The video that Lancecasper posted was the best Dynon video I have ever seen. Really well done. 

[Yetti]

16 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

It is for a Mooney, at least for now.


Tom

Um NO.   vaporware means the software does not exist or still being coded.   Both the DA10 (backup) and the HDX Screens have full functioning Auto Pilot software in the delivered box.    What is missing is the data to the FAA for servo mounting brackets and documentation.

It would be semi interesting to figure out a good transition for the Brittian servo mounting brackets to a Dynon Servo. and then what paperwork would be acceptable to the FAA to be legal.

[Baker Avionics]

On 12/27/2019 at 1:42 AM, Mooney in Oz said:

Only if you promise to open a shop on the east coast of Australia.

Not too much to ask? 

Never too much to ask! Will need sponsors though!

[Baker Avionics]

On 12/28/2019 at 3:34 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Here's the reason I wouldn't wait for anything promised, rather would upgrade with what's available now...

It seems the delivery of new avionics is measured in dogs years. For every year the manufacturer says it will take to be STC'd, expect seven years.

And the clock is ticking on my medical. I'm 52 now and so there aren't many dog years left in my flying life. I don't want to waste any of them waiting for Garmin, BK, Genesis, Dynon,  Aspen, etc.

This is why I advocate for buying the airplane that is ready to fly today, rather than buying one that is a "good platform to upgrade." I'm all in favor of upgrading, and I certainly have upgraded my 252. I'm still upgrading it. But it's flying just fine today with it's fully coupled KFC150, EDM900, etc. I'm not waiting on anything to fly. When stuff becomes available, I'll look, evaluate, and possibly buy/upgrade with it.

Well said and agreed!

[Yetti]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:36 PM, Baker Avionics said:

Well said and agreed!

Oh stop it.   Full disclosure both he and I work for software companies.   We are pretty good at telling people to wait for the next release.

[Baker Avionics]

Just now, Yetti said:

Oh stop it.   Full disclosure both he and I work for software companies.   We are pretty good at telling people to wait for the next release.

Ahhhh!!!!  SO Mr. " @gsxrpilot " the truth comes out eh!!!!!?????  LOL

[tmo]

16 hours ago, Yetti said:

We are pretty good at telling people to wait for the next release.

Yeah, but only after you closed out the bug report with "works for me" a few times ;-)

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, tmo said:

Yeah, but only after you closed out the bug report with "works for me" a few times ;-)

umm ya I am seeing that request will be handled in phase 2

[Oldguy]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

umm ya I am seeing that request will be handled in phase 2

You're nicer than I was.

"That request will be considered for the release after the next one which is currently undergoing QAT."