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IFR check ride !


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1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

Take your plane up on a nice day, find out what MP/RPM setting will allow you to fly at the top of the white arc in level flight clean. without touching trim or the money knobs, drop the gear and put in TO flaps, note your decent rate. Most likely, you will find this is all you have to do at GS intercept to follow the GS down without changing a thing

This works well. Once you figure it out (with a safety pilot so you can take notes), do some practice approaches and see how long it takes to start descending. On my C, I drop the gear a dot-and-a-half above glideslope and follow it down pretty nicely. 

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The fun part of the IR testing process....

There are only so many short cuts a DPE can do to fail various parts of the plane (temporarily) during the test...

There is probably a list of things the DPEs have done, or do, to make the test ‘interesting’...

Find the list, so you are best prepared....

 

Now, work on your responses...

so that when you find the DPE’s rudder pedals jammed against the floor boards...

or your trim wheel seems to have moved on its own....

Hey, did you see that move?   :) (as if you detected the trim actually move...)

 

Know that each time you get asked a question like... “what’s that... 5 miles out the pilot’s window?”  Or questions about your favorite things... family, sports teams, airplanes....    Sense the distractions being offered to you...

If you have anti-distraction skills to multi task... go forward and execute the flight steps... while multi-tasking...

 

If you are an ordinary pilot, you may want to prepare a phrase to use... like... “ I’m too busy right now to discuss the Sox... give me a minute...”

 

Know they are testing an important challenge we have as pilots... you can’t stop what they are doing... they have to do it...  we have to respond properly...

Enjoy each time you recognize what is being loaded onto you... :)

If you don’t recognize any intentional distractions.... use your checklists anyways....

 

The coolest part of IR flight... it can be pure cognitive overload...

Testers are going to push things in the direction of peak overload... multiple changes at the same time...

Successful IR pilots develop strategies for spreading the overload out over time to make it more manageable... and develop memory devices to keep things from being missed... a hand on the glare shield, is a reminder to continuously monitor your climb, you don’t want to forget leveling out on The target altitude...

When given a turn to a heading, expect a climb, a change of speed, throw in an angle of bank... and a completely goofy question, like what’s your stall speed under various configurations...? While executing that, expect another change...

 

One strategy we use to minimize distractions... the sterile (quiet) cockpit during busy times...

 

Hey you DPE, shut up and get off my pedals!     May not be the best response... unless you got the worst DPE... And couldn’t have gotten out of the arrangement in advance...   :)

A good IR pilot knows as much as he can in advance... leaves nothing to chance... and has a plan C to go with his plan B...


PP thoughts only, it’s been a decade since I went through the IR... I’m not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bob865 said:

Thanks @mike_elliott and @Oldguy!  I have that and have it posted on my panel. I've never heard it called that, though.  I've been working on my instrument rating too and was slightly paniced that I missed somthing.

It's called various things. They all mean the same :) 

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This is actually advice I give to college students.  Preparing for the ride is when one should be very, very nervous.  Use that nervous energy look up everything, know everything.  When it comes time for the ride, relax.  Whether you pass or fail will depend on your degree of preparedness.  You will or you won't, but there's naught to do but the ride.  You've done all you can do to prepare already.

Keeping steady nerves is half the battle.  You'll do quite a bit better if you aren't on edge.

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6 hours ago, Hank said:

This works well. Once you figure it out (with a safety pilot so you can take notes), do some practice approaches and see how long it takes to start descending. On my C, I drop the gear a dot-and-a-half above glideslope and follow it down pretty nicely. 

Do you mean below glideslope?

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Ask around about the Examiner, they seem to have a routine to what they usually do, i.e. holds, missed approaches, you may get a heads up. As mentioned, fly the approach slow as you can and don't get behind the aircraft. don't be afraid to call a missed if you don't feel comfortable and re engage. Best of luck to you, I'm sure will do great.

 

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11 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I haven't had that issue, even in an Ovation. On faster aircraft, I use an additional approach configuration to the standard set. 

I call it "vectoring" but it's really about being in the approach environment. It's an intermediate step down speed from cruise in preparation for slowing to my FAS speed.

I have pretty much the same step.  I need to first get to 110kts with the Johnson bar to get the gear down, after that 12in and one pump of flaps will give me about 90 kts and 500 fpm descent.  

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36 minutes ago, kpaul said:

Do you mean below glideslope?

No, I mean that I'm motoring along level, watching the glide slope needle move down. When it's still a dot-and-a-half high, I move the gear switch. The gear lowers, airspeed dips a little bit, the nose begins to fall, airspeed picks back up and I find that I am descending right on the glideslope with the needle centered.

If I wait for the needle to reach center before lowering the gear, I will be descending above the glideslope (but roughly parallel to it) and need to correct to a higher descent rate to reach the glideslope, then correct again to a lower descent rate to not go below it. I'd rather not do that.

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9 minutes ago, Hank said:

No, I mean that I'm motoring along level, watching the glide slope needle move down. When it's still a dot-and-a-half high, I move the gear switch. The gear lowers, airspeed dips a little bit, the nose begins to fall, airspeed picks back up and I find that I am descending right on the glideslope with the needle centered.

If I wait for the needle to reach center before lowering the gear, I will be descending above the glideslope (but roughly parallel to it) and need to correct to a higher descent rate to reach the glideslope, then correct again to a lower descent rate to not go below it. I'd rather not do that.

I understand the technique, in fact that is what I have used in every plane I have flown and how I teach students to fly approaches with glide path guidance.  The dot and a half technique is TAS and GS dependent, you could need to configure earlier or later to be configured at glideslope intercept. 

I was curious about your wording.."On my C, I drop the gear a dot-and-a-half above glideslope and follow it down pretty nicely."  Generally, we refer to the aircrafts position in relation to the glideslope, therefor a dot and a half above would require a very steep descent to recapture the glideslope.  If your glide path indicator is a dot and a half above the "on glide path" indicator then the aircraft is in fact below glideslope.

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Hmmmm...

let’s assume for a moment...

The M20C is level and approaching the glide slope.... from underneath...

Indication of the ILS, on the HSI, is showing the Glide slope needle coming down toward the center of the instrument....

So if the glide slope needle is a dot and a half high...

That gives the pilot and plane some reaction time to equilibrate on a descent closely  with the glide slope... including forward speed and descent rate of the standard ILS...

Sounds like Hank’s statement is regarding the glide slope indicator being a dot and a half high when he drops the gear...?  (Not the plane actually being a dot and a half high)

Great explanation, Kevin! :)

Waiting for Hank to stop by...

Best regards,

-a-

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2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hmmmm...

let’s assume for a moment...

The M20C is level and approaching the glide slope.... from underneath...

Indication of the ILS, on the HSI, is showing the Glide slope needle coming down toward the center of the instrument....

So if the glide slope needle is a dot and a half high...

That gives the pilot and plane some reaction time to equilibrate on a descent closely  with the glide slope... including forward speed and descent rate of the standard ILS...

Sounds like Hank’s statement is regarding the glide slope indicator being a dot and a half high when he drops the gear...?  (Not the plane actually being a dot and a half high)

Great explanation, Kevin! :)

Waiting for Hank to stop by...

Best regards,

-a-

Hank stopping by again. Yep, you got it, Anthony.  ^_^

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12 hours ago, Hank said:

No, I mean that I'm motoring along level, watching the glide slope needle move down. When it's still a dot-and-a-half high, I move the gear switch. The gear lowers, airspeed dips a little bit, the nose begins to fall, airspeed picks back up and I find that I am descending right on the glideslope with the needle centered.

If I wait for the needle to reach center before lowering the gear, I will be descending above the glideslope (but roughly parallel to it) and need to correct to a higher descent rate to reach the glideslope, then correct again to a lower descent rate to not go below it. I'd rather not do that.

This quite literally works in (almost?) every retract single  I have flown. I remember demonstrating it for a trainee. I literally let go on the yoke to make the point. His comment? "That's not fair! This is supposed to be harder."

Understanding this is one of the essentials of instrument flying. "Gear down to go down" is not just a gear management SOP. It's an efficient workload manager in a critical stage of flight.

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  1. Don't start briefing the approach plate in detail when you are 2NM from the FAF.  BTW, nowhere in the ACS does it state a requirement to even do an approach briefing.  Much less, an airline crew style top-to-bottom approach briefing.  I've seen it cause problems many times.
  2. Check the NOTAMS.  Especially FDC NOTAMS.  It stinks to fly the perfect approach to the charted minimums when there is an FDC NOTAM raising the mins by 100 feet.
  3. Relax and look at each question or scenario as if you are considering it for the first time.  Try not to anticipate what the examiner "wants to hear" from gouges.  "Thats what the gouge said you were looking for" is not a good rebuttal for an incorrect answer.

Good luck....

 

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5 hours ago, Flybeech21 said:
  1. Don't start briefing the approach plate in detail when you are 2NM from the FAF.  BTW, nowhere in the ACS does it state a requirement to even do an approach briefing.  Much less, an airline crew style top-to-bottom approach briefing.  I've seen it cause problems many times.

Good luck....

 

Excellent point. But you also need to warn the opposite - not briefing enough and thereby missing something critical. It's too easy to get complacent about briefing because they are all local approaches and you probably know them fairly well.

The balance point is what one might call a "Priorities Briefing" (I just made that up so don't look it up). You have pre-reviewed the approaches for currency, NOTAMs, and gotchas, and can now review the frequencies, courses and altitudes. It is going to be a sign of good cockpit management...

... and of real world flying.

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7 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Excellent point. But you also need to warn the opposite - not briefing enough and thereby missing something critical. It's too easy to get complacent about briefing because they are all local approaches and you probably know them fairly well.

The balance point is what one might call a "Priorities Briefing" (I just made that up so don't look it up). You have pre-reviewed the approaches for currency, NOTAMs, and gotchas, and can now review the frequencies, courses and altitudes. It is going to be a sign of good cockpit management...

... and of real world flying.

I agree absolutely...  I like your phrase "Priorities Briefing."  I may borrow that if you don't mind.  But, if the applicant busts, there is no code to tie the disapproval to lack of doing an approach briefing.  It would be a debrief including this appropriate phrase you have coined.  Or maybe a priorities checklist.

An approach brief is a bonus item in SRM but a necessity in CRM as required by part 121 and 135 training programs...  My point is I often see the full approach briefing cause more distractions that helping in the case of SRM.  In CRM scenarios, someone is always flying the airplane while the detailed briefing is taking place.  In the case of SRM without an Autopilot in IMC, nobody is flying the airplane during a detailed approach briefing. It's a kin to driving a car in the rain while talking on two cell phones and having a conversation with your passenger.  Not the best idea right?  I think that is why the FAA didn't include approach briefings as a skill that is evaluated during the instrument rating.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Flybeech21 said:

I agree absolutely...  I like your phrase "Priorities Briefing."  I may borrow that if you don't mind.  

Not in the least. I think about  priorities a lot with IFR and apply that modifier to a few things. I've used the term "priority scan" to refer to the need to adjust one's  instrument scan to the phase of flight. I've been in more than one cockpit where I've seen needle left, heading right with no timely correction because of a scan that didn't give it more priority (not fixation) on an approach.

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14 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Excellent point. But you also need to warn the opposite - not briefing enough and thereby missing something critical. It's too easy to get complacent about briefing because they are all local approaches and you probably know them fairly well.

The balance point is what one might call a "Priorities Briefing" (I just made that up so don't look it up). You have pre-reviewed the approaches for currency, NOTAMs, and gotchas, and can now review the frequencies, courses and altitudes. It is going to be a sign of good cockpit management...

... and of real world flying.

Agree.  Use your low-workload intervals to do tasks that will help reduce your high-workload intervals.  By that I mean to brief the approach details, get ATIS, do the math to get reciprocal bearings, set up radios etc. at times when the workload is relatively low, such as straight and level flight segments.

I recall that during my checkride the DPE gave me a hold, and then asked me to tell him my life history.  I already know my life history, so that was easy, all I had to do was keep talking while I flew the airplane and thought about the hold entry and headings in the hold.

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