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Happy holidays to all ! Getting ready to take my IFR check ride I have a 1966E model and looking for all the advice I can get to be able to pass this endeavor have been studying big time passed the written now getting ready to take the check RIDE ! All advice is welcome ! I have no idea who the examiner is going to be ! I live in South Jersey fly out of 7N7 !  Look forward to all the advice this form has the give !

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If you don’t know it by now then it’s to late. If you have prepared and worked hard have faith in what you do know and in your instructor they have taught you well. Best advice at this stage I ever got is relax and know you got this... If you have more than days before your check ride I would go spend sometime with another instructor so you feel to uneasiness of someone new sitting next to you and have them put you through a mock check ride. Have fun and enjoy that IR when you get it!!!!


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Hi John,

I got my rating two years ago November.  It was seriously the hardest thing I have ever done in aviation. 

I suppose I have two comments based on things I have written for

AOPA:  https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2017/11/20/gotta-get-that-rating/

And for Flying Magazine:  Just published in Jan/Feb issue: Nail your Check Ride, what your DPE wants you to know.  I know you can't read the article from the photos, hopefully you have a subscription.

The take away from the DPEs that I interviewed was to use the ACS as almost a Bible.  Some instructors have blind spots so you need to verify you have all the experience and can perform all the tasks. 

You can read about my feelings about the process in the AOPA piece. 

Most of all, good luck. Get a good nights sleep and go show them what you know!  The Mooney was a wonderful platform for my IR, now going to get my commercial.

 

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37 minutes ago, mooneygirl said:

The take away from the DPEs that I interviewed was to use the ACS as almost a Bible.  Some instructors have blind spots so you need to verify you have all the experience and can perform all the tasks. 

 

 

 

 

This is fantastic advice!  My DPE went straight through the ACS on the oral and tripped my up on a few small things in the FAR/AIM.  It's open book.  If you don't know the answer, it's OK.  Just know how to find it and take your time doing so if need be.  It's not a race.  

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18 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

Even though its a Mooney, slow it down to 90kts and fly the approach like a Cessna/Cherokee. My mistake was trying to do 120kts and I was MILES behind the plane when I didn't need it to be.

This. Especially on a checkride. It's not a race to see how fast you can finish it.

It's a common failing of pilots of faster airplanes to fly fast in all situations just because the airplane is capable of it. It's great to have it and important to know how to use it when you get the "best forward speed" request from ATC, but it is so unnecessary otherwise. I have a few "slow down" stories.

BTW, since you mention Cessna,  I need to say that I have flown a 120 KIAS approach in a 172.

Edited by midlifeflyer
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As mentioned above, the DPE's are required to follow the ACS in the oral and the ride itself. A good review of it always helps. Be prepared to discuss your "planned route" extensively on the oral, make sure you get NOTAMS for the airports in your trip, know the symbology, and weather. Mark gave good advice that you should be well aware of by now, fly the approaches at Cezzna speeds. Know your PAC numbers so you dont have to chase your plane on a glideslope. He will be looking for you demonstrating you could easily take a trip from here to there in the soup safely, so predicate your answers and actions on safety, not just for the checkride, but for all flight. (yea, I know, that shouldnt have to be said). 

I hope your instructor has vetted the DPE. Most have good relations with a DPE meaning they know what the hotspots are for them. There is just so much to know, it is always nice to know what the DPE feels is most important and that the DPE knows the quality of your instructor and his instruction. As much as the FAA likes to imagine all checkrides are the same, all DPE's are not by nature. For example, I use a couple that have the stated position "the applicant has passed the checkride until they fail" vs "You instructors need to be increasing the quality of your instruction. Only 15% of the applicants pass now" (honest this was stated by a DPE at a CFI seminar 4 or 5 years ago..I dont use him, not because I am challenging his pass/fail rate, just he is predisposed for keeping this ratio low). Your instructors endorsements (yep there are more than one) for the checkride are his certification that your IFR skills are within the ACS, and the DPE is there to validate his endorsements just as much as your skills. That said, dont fear the DPE at all. The good ones know how stressful this is, will put you at ease, and while not by reg make this an instructional event, you most likely will come away learning a lot.

In my years of submitting IFR applicants, I have only had one bust his checkride, my own son :)

 

 

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Besides all of the other advice above the one thing I would say is that most DPEs want to see how you react when you make a mistake.  While making a mistake is all but inevitable on the checkride, if you quickly realize it and correct your action without getting flustered you’ll do just fine.  Of course, there are certain things that you just have to do perfectly such as not busting the MDA or correctly programming your GPS/instruments.  These are critical safety issues that won’t give your DPE a warm and fuzzy feeling about giving you your rating.

Edited by Davidv
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When I was on my IFR check ride 35 years ago... The DPE looks over at me and asks "What's your crossing altitude at the next fix?", It was 2 miles away and I was 1000 ft too high. I said "Oh Crap!", pulled the power to idle, shoved the left rudder peddle to the floor and slipped it down (under the hood). I made it with 1/4 mile to spare. He thought he had waited till it was un-recoverable. He looked over smiled and said "well, that works".

Of course it would be better to not have to do that.

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I’ll share one interesting story from my checkride.

examiner: slow to 80 knots 

Me: slowing to 80 knots (thinking this was the beginning of IFR slow flight)

examiner: give me a right 360, 45 degree bank.

So I do the 360 but don’t bank to 45 degrees and he reminds me a few times to keep a 45 degree bank.  The controls felt different (because all of my previous steep turns were well above 100 knots).  I complete the 360 somewhat clumsily and we move on to other things. 
 

After we land I say “hey, did you know that when you asked me to do those 45 degree turns at 80 knots my stall speed at that bank angle was about 78???”  He responds by saying “yeah...I was hoping we would get into a pre-stall buffet to see how you would react but you didn’t get quite slow enough”

While I thought at the time I was being tested on a steep turn it was a sneaky unusual attitude test.  We did some traditional unusual attitudes later in the flight.

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12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I was on my IFR check ride 35 years ago... The DPE looks over at me and asks "What's your crossing altitude at the next fix?", It was 2 miles away and I was 1000 ft too high. I said "Oh Crap!", pulled the power to idle, shoved the left rudder peddle to the floor and slipped it down (under the hood). I made it with 1/4 mile to spare. He thought he had waited till it was un-recoverable. He looked over smiled and said "well, that works".

Of course it would be better to not have to do that.

Today, this may go differently.  If you are too high, I think its fair to ask "ATC" for a delay vector to lose altitude, go missed, or if he refuses take a discontinue on that approach.

The DPE might be just as likely to say slamming it in to lose altitude fast is poor decision making and you should have done something else if the approach isn't right.

You don't have to be perfect to pass but you do need to demonstrate good skills and good decision making.

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Just now, hypertech said:

Steep turns are not on the test.

You’re correct but I did it in all my training and there are certain sections of the ACS (I cant remember which one(s) off hand) that give the examiner latitude to test you on a variety of manuevers under the hood to determine your ability to control the aircraft.  Whether he would try to fail you on this maneuver independently is another story.

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My check ride was in 1985 or thereabouts, quite a difference no GPS RNAV etc ADF approach’s were tough, I believe back then there was the gotcha factor and the check ride was a continuum of our training not as penile as today, for instance during my first approach nearing the faf the plane was unstable, I noticed the examiner was on the rudder pedals messing with me, I asked him if he was on them no response after the third time I politely said get your f&$@ing feet off my rudder pedals, he did, after the check ride,BTW I passed, he told me he would have failed me if I hadn’t been assertive and took control of my plane. He stated during an approach a passenger could easily do what he did in his opinion it was an important factor to show one has control of aircraft. Even back then explaining your command of your route of flight including all elements of the route, chart symbolization staying out of restricted areas and knowledge of the elements of weather was paramount.

Good luck on your ride, relax stay light on your controls be in charge your the pilot in command and control, many feel your at your best when your instructor turns you loose. Just do it.

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On 12/23/2019 at 3:31 PM, Rodeo John said:

Happy holidays to all ! Getting ready to take my IFR check ride I have a 1966E model and looking for all the advice I can get to be able to pass this endeavor have been studying big time passed the written now getting ready to take the check RIDE ! All advice is welcome ! I have no idea who the examiner is going to be ! I live in South Jersey fly out of 7N7 !  Look forward to all the advice this form has the give !

You NEED to know who it will be.  If your instructor doesn’t have experience working with particular examiners, you are at a disadvantage.  It is worth delaying to get the right examiner.  There are some really nasty ones in S Jersey.  And some great ones...PM me if you like

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3 minutes ago, 59Moonster said:

They will look for your weaknesses. If you have done a lot of GPS work and little with tracking/holding via VOR then they will notice that pretty quick. Good luck!

Some DPEs want you to pass, some want you to fail...

Most DPEs will size you up the first few minuets and spend the rest of their time fulfilling their original impressions.

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8 hours ago, SantosDumont said:

I learned to drop the gear wayyyy before the IAF or there was no way I was gonna be 90 kts on a stabilized approach.

I haven't had that issue, even in an Ovation. On faster aircraft, I use an additional approach configuration to the standard set. 

I call it "vectoring" but it's really about being in the approach environment. It's an intermediate step down speed from cruise in preparation for slowing to my FAS speed.

Edited by midlifeflyer
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36 minutes ago, bob865 said:

PAC numbers?  I've never heard this term?

Power, Attitude, Configuration

A specific PAC gives specific performance. Power is MP and RPM. Attitude will be pitch (+/-), and configuration is flaps/gear positioning.

We won't get into Key Numbers.

All of these areas are covered in depth at the MAPA PPP sessions.

Edited by Oldguy
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(P)ower setting (A)ttitude and (c)onfiguration. You should have these MP/RPM/Config numbers for your plane to make flying IFR easier so you are not chasing the money knobs to make the plane fly at a certain airspeed in a certain config. The plane will always behave the same with the same settings, and is why emphasis is put on this in IFR training.

Take your plane up on a nice day, find out what MP/RPM setting will allow you to fly at the top of the white arc in level flight clean. without touching trim or the money knobs, drop the gear and put in TO flaps, note your decent rate. Most likely, you will find this is all you have to do at GS intercept to follow the GS down without changing a thing

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