Need assistance with Ifr Garmin database question

[Bob - S50]

I would consider using my Android GPS in an emergency.  Consider the following.

Lots of us have an ADI with a battery backup like the G5 we just installed in our plane.  However, before I ever need that battery to save me, a lot of stuff has to happen.

1.  I need to be IMC or at least VMC over a solid undercast. (VFR?  Who cares?)

2.  The alternator has to fail.

3.  Either I have to not notice that fact or I have to be out in the middle of nowhere so that I have to fly the plane long enough that the aircraft battery dies.

or

I have an electrical problem such as smoke in the cockpit that makes me turn off the master.

By the time I get to that point I am not only depending on my battery backup, I've also lost all my navigation and communication radios plus my transponder.  Now what?

It depends on how bad the weather is.  But I would be glad I could use my Android GPS to navigate with Garmin Pilot and then either fly a pseudo approach or navigate out over the water somewhere and let down to VMC conditions before continuing to an airport.

[ArtVandelay]

Circling at night in VFR conditions should not be risky. If you think it is, then any night operations should be considered risky and avoided.


Tom

[ilovecornfields]

3 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

I would consider using my Android GPS in an emergency. 

I agree. I would consider using my iPad IN AN EMERGENCY. If both alternators and batteries fail, or if I have a fire that makes me shut off the master then hopefully my iPad, foreflight Sentry with built-in AHRS and WAAS GPS, standby AI (battery powered) and handheld radio will get me down safely.

Of course, in this situation, a lot of bad things have happened, I have declared an emergency and I’m doing whatever I can to avoid a crash.

It has been brought up elsewhere, but it seems that with the new technology some people are using it in ways that it was not intended to be used. Surviving the experience causes a “normalization of deviance” and makes that behavior more likely in the future. With all this fancy technology, people are flying IMC without a clearance, making up their own instrument approaches, and using EFBs as a primary reference to instrument approaches. Those who survive will convince themselves it was a good idea and are more likely to do it again.

I used to read a lot of accident reports when I was younger and when I started doing something stupid (I was a teenager so it was not uncommon) I would think “how would the accident report read?” If the accident report would have been significantly embarrassing I would stop doing what I was doing. I think this kind of thinking can be sometimes helpful as a “reality check.” 
 

[kpaul]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

Negative, unable! Circling at night is incredibly risky, even my DPE recommended against doing it outside of an immediate emergency. He was the Wing Commander of the Air National Guard, so I believe he knew from where he spoke.

Interesting, since circling at night is a Requirement for Air Force student pilots to get through pilot training.  I do it with 100ish hour students in Beech 400s quite regularly.  In fact, I was doing night circles at KCHA (Chattanooga) Thursday evening.  Night circling is a currency item for us, just like instrument approaches and landings.  If you only attempt in the case of an Emergency it will indeed be risky.

[irishpilot]

Interesting, since circling at night is a Requirement for Air Force student pilots to get through pilot training.  I do it with 100ish hour students in Beech 400s quite regularly.  In fact, I was doing night circles at KCHA (Chattanooga) Thursday evening.  Night circling is a currency item for us, just like instrument approaches and landings.  If you only attempt in the case of an Emergency it will indeed be risky.

Agreed. If circling at night is above your risk tolerance, I recommend either train to get that proficiency should you need it, or alter night go-no go criteria accordingly.

No harm in knowing one's limits, and I highly recommend not flying any approach you don't have currency in or confidence in IMC. Knowing one's limits is one of the best safety tools.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Hank]

28 minutes ago, kpaul said:

Interesting, since circling at night is a Requirement for Air Force student pilots to get through pilot training.  I do it with 100ish hour students in Beech 400s quite regularly.  In fact, I was doing night circles at KCHA (Chattanooga) Thursday evening.  Night circling is a currency item for us, just like instrument approaches and landings.  If you only attempt in the case of an Emergency it will indeed be risky.

Night flight, OK.

Circling at night, OK. I did several 360s in the pattern at a local D to let a jet land, at night, as a newbie student. But it was clean VMC.

Circling at night in actual IMC, no thank you.

[ArtVandelay]

Night flight, OK.
Circling at night, OK. I did several 360s in the pattern at a local D to let a jet land, at night, as a newbie student. But it was clean VMC.
Circling at night in actual IMC, no thank you.

Bases were at 2000AGL, that’s not IMC, you literally can just enter a left downwind and have flown a normal VFR once he broke out.
The OP was uncomfortable with possibly holding in nasty IMC conditions, so took the most expedient approach.


Tom

[Oldguy]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

 

I used to read a lot of accident reports when I was younger and when I started doing something stupid (I was a teenager so it was not uncommon) I would think “how would the accident report read?” If the accident report would have been significantly embarrassing I would stop doing what I was doing. I think this kind of thinking can be sometimes helpful as a “reality check.” 

Some of the pilots I fly with and I regularly go through this Q & A on trip planning. There are different answers from some of us at times due to experience, currency, etc. but we listen to differing opinions, the reasoning behind them, and then make our own decision. Even then, changing situations can make a decision on the ground change once in the air, and you have to be willing to change your mind and alter your choice.

[kpaul]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

Night flight, OK.

Circling at night, OK. I did several 360s in the pattern at a local D to let a jet land, at night, as a newbie student. But it was clean VMC.

Circling at night in actual IMC, no thank 

Circling approaches have visibility and ceiling requirements that allow you to visually maneuver to land, day or night. Now if you have personal minimums above the published ones that is fine.  As we have seen from this thread having personal go/no go minimums is probably a good idea as is knowing ones equipment and comparable approaches at the destination and any alternates.