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Failing Attitude Indicator


hnorber

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Well, after dumping more money that I care to discuss into ADS-B and a top-overhaul, my attitude indicator seems to be showing signs of failure.  On a flight a few weeks ago (VFR), it seemed to be lagging behind my turns, and it also doesn't seem to come alive for a good 10 minutes (last flight, it was erect after about 5 or 7 minutes (including my run-up), but the pitch was off until my climb-out (all in good VFR).  My vacuum pressure was consistently low, but at the last annual, the shop adjusted the regulator and it's now reading a little bit high (just north of the green - I think 5.25 or 5.5 inches).

Since it's a KI256 (connected to my KFC 150 autopilot) - this isn't a cheap fix.  Avionics shop was ball-parking somewhere north of $2500, and also mentioned that I might consider an Aspen EFD 1000 (which can integrate with the KFC 150) - but that would be much more than I had planned to spend (or can really part with) at this stage.

Wondering whether folks have any thoughts regarding good alternatives.

Thnx!

Howard

 

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@hnorber You might give Bob Bramble a call. Several folks on here, myself included, have had him rebuild their AI.

Robert Bramble
Aerolab Aviation Services
www.aerolabaviation.com

FAA CRS#40RR239Y
8191 N Tamiami Trail
Hanger B-2
Sarasota, FL 34243
Ph: (913) 680-4169 

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If you buy a used one and have it aligned with the 150 you could probably be gtg for under $800. Otherwise I’d just pay Bob linked above the $2500 to fix it right and be good for another 10 years. 
 

Other more expensive choices would be a Aspen E5, D/A converter, and a EA100 or if you like to gamble a little the ki300/310 along with a backup AI (necessary IMO). 

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I am facing the same situation.  My KI256 (part of a KFC150 installation) is starting to go and is now taking 10+ minutes to erect. I have swapped with a loaner KI256 for the time being while I explore options.  After looking at the options (including OH the KI 256 for ~3AMU), I am thinking of getting an Aspen PFD Pro Max /EA 100 for now and upgrading the KFC150 to the Aerocruze KFC230 down the road.  The Aspen seems like a reasonable way to upgrade to glass without breaking the bank and also without drastically and expensively changing autopilots and from what I have read, seems to interface with the KFC150 (using the EA 100) nicely).  I could be wrong but I think that the G5 apparently will not be able to drive the FD /AI for the KFC 150 and would require the retention of the KI256 (necessitating an OH) - this would make the G5 a good option if looking to upgrade to the GFC500 autopilot.  

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Several years ago I was faced with the same problem.  An old guy like me has a hard time reading the small display of an Aspen.  The Aspen Max might work better.  My KI  256 had 1800hrs on it so I went it to Bramble for Overhaul.  I also sent the HSI gyro overhauled.  My thinking was maybe something acceptable will come along.  KI 300 not yet approved for my model and I have issues with that box but I may go for it if the price would come down and if it develops a good reputation.  Right now I am comfortable with the equipment I have.  It cost a lot to overhaul the current equipment but it should last a good many years.

I would not consider buying a used KI 256.  The ones removed for update are normally worn out so you would have to overhaul the one you just bought. Marriage is also a problem with buying a used KI 256.  You have to have an avionics shop marry the AI to the computer.  Weddings are not cheap.  After an overhau of your KI 256l you will have to incur the same cost.  

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Thanks everyone.  
I'll call Bob Bramble - although if the price is $2500, that's pretty close to what shops here quoting me for an overhauled unit.

Problem with buying a used unit on Ebay is that I don't think I could trust it to fly in hard IMC (or any IMC).  
Does anyone know how long it typically takes for these units to completely fail after they start showing signs of trouble?

Elimansour - how did you swing a loaner?   I'd also want to know for sure that it's the AI and not the vacuum pressure before I take any drastic steps.

Last  question - I though I remember reading a bunch of stories about a year ago about Aspen units going dark in flight?  Does anyone recall anything about that.  Has the problem been addressed?


Thanks again!

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Is this a cold weather induced failure?  My AI is failing too, though it's not connected to any autopilot, so I should have a few more options.   Whatever I do, I'd like to understand what implications that has for a future autopilot upgrade.

If you have no autopilot now, then i'd do basic G5's or an aspen G5. Itll work with all the modern autopilots. Itll allow youto choose between trutrak,trio, garmin, stec, whatever you want and wont put any limitations of the majority of autopilots except for one. The main "modern" autopilot it wouldnt work with is kfc230.  I dont know about you, but im guessing youre not gonna spend 30k to install an AP on an F model.

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1 hour ago, hnorber said:

Elimansour - how did you swing a loaner?   I'd also want to know for sure that it's the AI and not the vacuum pressure before I take any drastic steps.

I was lucky that my local avionics shop had one on the shelf from a recent equipment upgrade.

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6 hours ago, hnorber said:

Thanks everyone.  
I'll call Bob Bramble - although if the price is $2500, that's pretty close to what shops here quoting me for an overhauled unit.

Problem with buying a used unit on Ebay is that I don't think I could trust it to fly in hard IMC (or any IMC).  
Does anyone know how long it typically takes for these units to completely fail after they start showing signs of trouble?

.....

Last  question - I though I remember reading a bunch of stories about a year ago about Aspen units going dark in flight?  Does anyone recall anything about that.  Has the problem been addressed?

Bob’s price of $2500 ish is to do an overhaul. I wouldn’t trust too many shops to open up a 256. Many horror stories of the 256 going TU in < 300 hrs after a rebuild. Not all failures are a slow to respond AI. Some can be a full(ish) deflection of the controls in straight and level flight. 

I would (will) not fly IFR with a 256 and no backup AI. Things could go very wrong close to the DA on an approach.  To me this is a critical time to be able to reference the backup AI to make sure everything looks good. 

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8 hours ago, hnorber said:

Thanks everyone.  
I'll call Bob Bramble - although if the price is $2500, that's pretty close to what shops here quoting me for an overhauled unit.

Does anyone know how long it typically takes for these units to completely fail after they start showing signs of trouble?

Bob did my unit in about a week and I had it running 3 years before I swapped it out for my Aspen. When I got it back from Bob, I was able to see an amazing difference - didn't realize they would spin up in 5-10 seconds and be ready to go! I thought 30-45 seconds was normal.

Hopefully, no one here has a lot of experience with letting one go to complete failure after they see if degrading. Just the one flight where mine was ~ 10 degrees off in VFR was enough to make me get it done ASAP.

Last note: I contacted Bob through email, and even though he was on vacation, he replied and we set up a time to get it to him, the price, and how long he would have it. He met all of his commitments to me, and in the airplane business, that goes a long way to earn my respect.

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On 12/19/2019 at 11:38 PM, hnorber said:

Thanks everyone.  

Last  question - I though I remember reading a bunch of stories about a year ago about Aspen units going dark in flight?  Does anyone recall anything about that.  Has the problem been addressed?


Thanks again!

 

 

 

I was thinking that would be a memorable experience that would be highlighted by a particular long term nay sayer know as (it doesn’t matter what Peter’s name is... :))

Lets ask a guy that has a great memory, and is an Avid(?) aspen owner...  

Question for @Marauder above regarding electronic failure rates of Aspens(?)

Thought you might have remembered a report like this above, if one exists...

Best regards,

-a-

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I have dual aspen on a 206 at work I have several failures, some times I’m really concerned on flying that plane in the weather, the Red X comes on screen goes black and restart, no big deal vfr but imc can be a scary proposition, my bravo goes in mid January for dual g5’s and next year hitting the garmin autopilot. Have G5’s on my last plane 700hrs never a problem. 

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FWIW, Aspen has claimed to eliminate the "red X" failure mode by, if memory servers me, allowing the system to continue on partial input (GPS with loss of air data).

Side note, I think I've seen more negative reports on the Sandia / King AI than on the Aspens, especially when one considers the install base.

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I have a new KI254 for sale...  Perfect for anyone that would like to get rid of their vacumn system...  Its an electric version of the KI256 that we all have... Very minor installation required...
E0595F23-B434-4ABF-A462-F4EF6065582F.thumb.jpeg.83aa173c1121c635aa6ba345304b6e04.jpeg


Just curious how much? Not sure if I need it just yet but keeping my options open. Thanks!
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8 minutes ago, jerryg324 said:

The first one lasted over 10 years and 800 hours...  I guess that’s pretty good...  This one is new I decided to upgrade to G600 so never installed...

Is it new or overhauled? I see there's a work order number on the Pacific Southwest Instruments sticker on top of it.

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