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Looked at my first Mooney this weekend M20C 1964


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5 hours ago, Marauder said:

SO! What's holding you up? BUY! BUY! BUY! And keep us up on your exploits in getting the C back into flying mode. :D

When I find the right one, that's exactly what I'll do! ;-)

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22 hours ago, carusoam said:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1924Y
 

Last known flight recorded on FA... many years ago...


Serial number reported in the Ad...  seems a bit funny... back in the day they were four digit numbers in serial order... in ‘65... they were in the 3000s....

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1924Y

 

Best to get a plane that is flying often.... so many new ropes to learn...

 

But... if you have the experience of learning the ropes of old machines... this won’t be much different... accept the whole FAA part...

The FAA supplies a bunch of what you can do vs. what has to be done by a certificated mechanic...  or under his supervision...


Don’t get distracted by what might seem to be negativity...

Its kinda similar to hanging out around the airport discussing the same details...

You get to decide what is right for you... everyone here wants you to be successful... joining the group...  now, you are just better informed...

Do you want to be a flyer, a builder, or both? :)

Best regards,

-a-

If it was a D they only made about 250 of them.  Mine is a 63 and the serial is 149.  It may have been converted to retracts and constant speed prop but I am sure the serial is still a D.

 

Mark

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A few years ago I paid about $18k for my ‘64 M20D that had around 2050 SMOH. Same prop but it came with better avionics (GNC 300XL, SL-30, 106B indicator, GTX330). Note that I dropped over ten grand getting it up to snuff and then 10’s of thousands more to add a GTN, upgrade this and that etc. Shop around if they won’t budge at your valuation.


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My $0.02 worth of advice is what I did...two years in and I'm still happy.  So, I'm sure it will work for EVERYONE! (sarcasm)

MOST important was that the plane had been recently flown.  Mine had been consistently flown 75-100 hours/year by the same owner for 13 years.  It is NOT easy to find such a plane.  Most for sale under $50K have NOT been flown much.  The instant case is an excellent example of what you'll find when you look into most candidates, unfortunately.

I did NOT care about total airframe time (okay I wasn't wild about >8,000 hours).

I'm a believer in Mike Busch's overhaul on condition, so I did NOT rule out planes with high engine time.  In my case, I got a price that reflected a run-out engine.  I'm two years and 150 hours in with no engine problems.  If I have to overhaul tomorrow I'm way ahead and get to choose the shop and the quality of my overhaul.  Honestly, 'fresh' overhauls with very few hours scared me off when I was shopping.

Find a plane equipped with the avionics you want.  I wanted WAAS and an autopilot.  Didn't need the latest Garmin glass.

Cosmetics were way down the list.  As long as the paint wasn't chalky and falling off, it worked for me.  I lucked out in that regard; paint still has decent gloss and the interior, while far from pristine, is clean and without rips or tears; no rush to upgrade.

Good luck!

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My experience is that the thing autos and airplanes have in common is sitting unused is the worst thing in the world for either. My concerns in the case of the plane you are looking at center around corrosion. This includes the engine and the airframe. 
Mike Busch has been mentioned in this thread, and there are two books of his that you should read: “Airplane Ownership,” and “Engines.” They were quick reads; I almost could not put them down.

As others have said, a C model offers a lot of the bang four your buck, but if corroded from lack of flying it will be a money pit.

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On 12/16/2019 at 6:58 PM, MikeOH said:

My $0.02 worth of advice is what I did...two years in and I'm still happy.  So, I'm sure it will work for EVERYONE! (sarcasm)

MOST important was that the plane had been recently flown.  Mine had been consistently flown 75-100 hours/year by the same owner for 13 years.  It is NOT easy to find such a plane.  Most for sale under $50K have NOT been flown much.  The instant case is an excellent example of what you'll find when you look into most candidates, unfortunately.

I did NOT care about total airframe time (okay I wasn't wild about >8,000 hours).

I'm a believer in Mike Busch's overhaul on condition, so I did NOT rule out planes with high engine time.  In my case, I got a price that reflected a run-out engine.  I'm two years and 150 hours in with no engine problems.  If I have to overhaul tomorrow I'm way ahead and get to choose the shop and the quality of my overhaul.  Honestly, 'fresh' overhauls with very few hours scared me off when I was shopping.

Find a plane equipped with the avionics you want.  I wanted WAAS and an autopilot.  Didn't need the latest Garmin glass.

Cosmetics were way down the list.  As long as the paint wasn't chalky and falling off, it worked for me.  I lucked out in that regard; paint still has decent gloss and the interior, while far from pristine, is clean and without rips or tears; no rush to upgrade.

Good luck!

This 100%

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Thank you everyone for your input. All things considered, does it seem like now is not the time to buy? Is everything about 10K too high in asking price? I can barely find a Cessna 152 for less than 25k advertised in all the listings available. 

What are your thoughts?

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It’s not a market timing question is it Jeffry?

Or are you asking if you have enough experience to be buying yet?

Plenty of people have said... if you are like them... now is a good time to buy...


If it is a market timing question...

Consider the capital cost to be a pretty small cost overall to the total ownership experience...

See if you can be more specific with your question... I probably missed something... :)

 

Be realistic... the same plane 20years ago cost even more... and those were Y2K dollars...

Y2k M20C 30amu... M20E 40amu... M20F 50amu.... No GPS(s) at the time... APs not in the price at this level...

Select how long you want to own the plane... it helps when figuring out how much you want to spend...

I know a good doc/MSer that started with an M20C... his updates far outweigh what the cost of the original plane are at today...

The economy has made it challenging to buy cool machines, houses, boats.... competition is starting to get pretty tough... more than one buyer looking at the same object you are looking at...

Best regards,

-a- 

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4 hours ago, docjeffry said:

Thank you everyone for your input. All things considered, does it seem like now is not the time to buy? Is everything about 10K too high in asking price? I can barely find a Cessna 152 for less than 25k advertised in all the listings available. 

What are your thoughts?

Only you can know the real reason you want to own, but buying a 50ish year old airplane is NOT an investment, IMHO.  IOW, this is NOT a purchase that buy low/sell high even remotely applies...again, IMHO.

IF you want to own an airplane then NOW is the right time to buy!  ZERO point in worrying about 'market timing.'

How much money you are going to lose when you sell (note carefully that you are NOT going to make money!) is much more dependent on the condition of the plane when you buy it; i.e., how many more AMUs to bring it up to YOUR level of condition and repair stuff NOT found at pre-buy.  Upgrades are your discretion, but plan on losing 50% when you go to sell.  Try to buy with what you want already installed, especially the avionics.

In my case, I'm just over two years in, and I've spent nearly the price of the plane on maintenance and upgrades.  And, I still think I got a good deal!  (Maybe I'm delusional, but after passing on countless planes in much worse condition when I was shopping, I doubt it).  Again, in our price range ($50K) we are buying "vintage" for sure; nothing wrong with that, but when it comes to upkeep you have to be realistic that those costs are going to be closer to newer airframes.  Point being, once again, that buying at a 'market low' is really and truly lost in the rounding.

Good luck!

Edited by MikeOH
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3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

In the end, the buying of the airplane us the less inexpensive part, because you’ll get it back when sell.
Hangar, insurance, fuel, maintenance will dwarf the buyin costs.

This is so true. But you'll ONLY get back what you paid for it. You won't get back the money spent on maintenance or upgrades. So it makes sense to buy the nicest, best upgraded, ready to fly now, Mooney you can find. 

Spend $80K on a nice, upgraded, ready to fly Mooney, and when you sell you'll likely get your $80K back.

Spend $30K on a fixer upper, put $50K into maintenance to get her airworthy, and into basic upgrades to replace failing radios, instruments, etc. and you'll probably get $40K back when you sell your $80K airplane.

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  • 5 months later...

I said this 6 months ago.  Lots of Mooneys out there.  I looked at several before I bought mine.  It's actually a good time to buy, since not a lot is moving right now.  I didn't want a hangar queen, would have had a lot of choices if I did.  The Buddha said there is no time.  6 months later and the OP is still looking.

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I haven't gone back to look at the log books to see if it even flew at all. Somehow I doubt it has. I can call Glen and ask but since i'm not going to make an offer, it doesn't matter.

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