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Strange (to me) departure procedure


DonMuncy

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20 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

It was only disconcerting to me because of my ignorance of their existence. Next time I am given a departure that is not listed in my 430 database, I will assume it is this type and look on FlyQ for it. I will check later to confirm that FlyQ has the same information as Foreflight.

Every EFB which has official SID charts has official SID charts. That includes FlyQ. And since the DENVER SID has no routes, FlyQ doesn't load it. Basically, if a procedure has no routes at all, there is nothing to load.

Here's the FlyQ screen if you try to load DENVER.

 

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Edited by midlifeflyer
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12 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I hangar at RBD under DFW class B. I am not aware there is a vector departure here, although I don't know that I keep up with it very well.

There is not a pure vector departure out of the Dallas area. I don't  know if this is universal, but my impression is, if there is a pure vector departure and there is a departure named after the airport, that's the one it will be. 
 

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A correction: Apparently the latest Garmin models do include Radar Vector SIDs in the Garmin database. I just checked two of them to be sure.  I was able to load the DENVER SID from the Garmin database into a GTN unit, but not the Jepp database. (Lack of consistency between the two databases is not unheard-of). I could not load it from the IFD database. 

This must be a pretty recent thing. The most current version of the GTN user guide still says "NOTE: Vector-only departures are not available in the Procedures database as the GTN 7XX cannot provide navigational guidance on vectored legs."

In the GTN using Garmin's database, it asks for your departing runway and transition, and creates an initial runway heading waypoint,, which it labels as "vectors," followed by a direct route to your transition. 

It seems to be a decent compromise. It appears in the database so avoids the potential confusion of being assigned it but not seeing it listed. OTOH, since there is no route structure, the "Vectors" announcement makes clear it's not a route to be followed. 

image.png.5f6fcc3b87b41d2d8a958c8687bc4494.png image.png.3a04f0097d268acaca4daf661f5d0366.png

Edited by midlifeflyer
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20 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

I have been routed over the top of ATL VFR at about 5500' if memory is right many times going into KRYY. Maybe its because of having ads-b out, Hank :)

 

A few weeks ago I filed IRF Gulfport Sinca direct Wilmington the we was great so went VFR with flight following in Alabama I was given direct destination putting over Atlanta at 7500, I’m assuming we’re getting so much direct routing due to ADSB. Flights and planning have never been easier, beats the compass and stopwatch 

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I guess this "vector departure" thing is just one of those you don't know about until you run into it like I did, or read about someone who did. Maybe everyone else reads their GTN users guide closer than I would if I had a GTN.:lol:

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11 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I guess this "vector departure" thing is just one of those you don't know about until you run into it like I did, or read about someone who did. Maybe everyone else reads their GTN users guide closer than I would if I had a GTN.:lol:

It's not about reading manuals. It's about learning about a variety of procedures. Sometimes we learn about them in advance, sometimes "on the fly," as you did.  Sometimes we learn it from an article or thread. Sometimes it's intellectual curiosity. 

In my case it's all three. I lived in Denver 20 years so I was exposed to it often, just like others who fly where these exist. I came across the GTN/Garmin database difference in another thread on another forum. I find things that might be i the manual because, as a CFII who teaches in airplanes with a variety of equipment, I feel it is my responsibility to know ow my students' equipment works.

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2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

It's not about reading manuals. It's about learning about a variety of procedures. Sometimes we learn about them in advance, sometimes "on the fly," as you did.  Sometimes we learn it from an article or thread. Sometimes it's intellectual curiosity. 

In my case it's all three. I lived in Denver 20 years so I was exposed to it often, just like others who fly where these exist. I came across the GTN/Garmin database difference in another thread on another forum. I find things that might be i the manual because, as a CFII who teaches in airplanes with a variety of equipment, I feel it is my responsibility to know ow my students' equipment works.

I applaud you. All of us should read all our manuals etc. carefully. And re-read them periodically, so as to keep these "one the fly" learning experiences at a minimum.

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Brief the departure with chart out as if you have a copilot. In old days we just filed no Sid or stars in our remarks. Leave the trouble to ATC. I don’t know how well that would work in these times where the info is readily available.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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47 minutes ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

Brief the departure with chart out as if you have a copilot. In old days we just filed no Sid or stars in our remarks. Leave the trouble to ATC. I don’t know how well that would work in these times where the info is readily available.

I'm not sure how well, "Advise when ready to copy full route clearance" ever worked as a good option. :D  I understand that the origin of "No SIDs. No STARs" was a time in the distant past whe arrival and departure procedures were in a separate volume from approach plates, so pilots didn't necessarily have them. Like may things, it outlived its origin and became a way of supposedly  "avoiding" them. But even when I first heard of the phrase during my instrument training almost 25-30 years ago, I never quite understood why someone would actually prefer a lengthy oral departure clearance to a written one with a chart showing the route.

BTW, this has turned out to be extremely interesting for me. @DonMuncy, as usual, one question (and you are definitely not alone in not having seen it before) lead to another and another and another.  And yours to discovering an undocumented GTN feature that folks I turn to for expertise in avionics hadn't seen. (I think mostly because most use the Jepp rather than the Garmin database). It's not about reading the manual. More about how the synapses in my weird brain work.

Edited by midlifeflyer
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