1982 M20K N1152L Has anyone gone to look at this?

[LANCECASPER]

Just curious if anyone has gone to look over N1152L for sale in Lawrenceville, GA. If anyone has any information they feel would be helpful  please PM me or e-mail me at lance99@aol.com. Thinking about putting it into a pre-buy - wondering if anyone has done that on this plane and walked away?

Thanks

Lance

[Parker_Woodruff]

Even at $59,900, I think it needs some work on the price.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1982-MOONEY-M20K-231/1190539.htm?

[kris_adams]

I hangar there at LZU as well and would be happy to do a "drive by" if you would like.  Obviously I'd need a list of things that you want me to check or take pictures of.  PM me if interested.

[jetdriven]

Even if you put an overhauled engine and a GTN in it you would be in it for ~110K.  This would be an 1800 hour M20K with a fresh engine and a GTN 650.  IS that a good deal?

[LANCECASPER]

I appreciate the opinions. I already know what I would be willing to put into the airplane. All I was asking is if anyone had already been through the process of a pre-buy and walked away.

[LANCECASPER]

Update: I looked at it today in person. Very rough 231. It has flown 100 hours in the past 10 years and 300 in the past 20 years. You name it, it needs it.

[DaV8or]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Even at $59,900, I think it needs some work on the price.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1982-MOONEY-M20K-231/1190539.htm?

[RJBrown]

This is a good example of why you buy as much with the plane as you can.

Compare N1152L with http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1980-MOONEY-M20K-231/1207093.htm?

N1152L would have to be close to free to match what was added to this one.

To figure value you need to add what you want or need to fly and compare it to the market.

Minimum on N1152L would be Engine, Prop and a "Get all caught Up Annual". About $50-65K.

Done up right Engine, Prop, Paint, Interior, Panel upgrade and the annual and you could spend between $100k and $150k over the acquisition costs.

[fantom]

Kind of reminds me of a 231 Parker and I looked at when we were at Tampa Exec. Mostly original, with a history of two gear ups and a prop strike. You would have to get it for nothing to invest what was needed for it to reach average market value.

Way too much work, unless you were going to do it yourself.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I have no problem buying stripped down, original, even runout engine planes for what they're worth and spending significant money to upgrade them.  In fact, I paid a couple thousand dollars more than what I feel was market value for my M20J.  However, it was from an owner who was a gentleman to deal with, and it had been maintained at G-Force in recent years.

I do have a problem buying these "original" and "runout" examples when they are poorly maintained and the airframe needs significant work.

This is why I refuse to deal with a seller that won't allow me to have an annual done at one of my preferred MSCs and be responsible for airworthiness squawks.  Somehow all those sellers say that if the airplane gets off the ground, it's airworthy.

[Parker_Woodruff]

To add to the above post:

An M20K has to have the largest potential price range of any airframe.  A runout, original, poorly maintained plane can really be worth zero as an airframe, and maybe $20,000 as a parts plane.  A modernized airframe with a brand new engine can be worth near $200,000.  And we haven't even discussed the 1997 and 1998 Encores.

That's the reality of what happens when you start looking at planes with engines that could run $45,000 or more on an overhaul...especially if they are shot originals and the props are in the same condition.

The example Gary and I viewed would cost more than my 252 just to buy and get into airworthy condition.  And we haven't yet discussed the analog radios in the panel or the interior that is ripped up.

[DaV8or]

Sad. This plane again reminds us that there are way more airplanes for sale out there than there are pilots wanting to fly them. We're witnessing the decline of GA folks.

[mooneygirl]

A little off topic, but perhaps this will help get the younger generation interested in flying Dave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyTzIslEQk

[DaV8or]

Quote: mooneygirl

A little off topic, but perhaps this will help get the younger generation interested in flying Dave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyTzIslEQk

[Carl S]

Quote: mooneygirl

A little off topic, but perhaps this will help get the younger generation interested in flying Dave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyTzIslEQk

[LANCECASPER]

Well . . . a nine year follow up on this post.

I was thinking of getting back into a Mooney back in 2011 and looked at N1152L. I made a trip out to Georgia with the idea of giving it a close look and maybe flying it back to Texas. Looking over the logbooks when I got there before I ever saw the airplane told me everything I needed to know - lesson learned I should have asked for scans of the books and saved the trip. There had been about 10 logbook annuals with almost no time each year, same AP/IA, same wording, absolutely nothing done to the airplane once I looked at the airplane in person. Fuel stains everywhere, nothing had been lubed in many years, tires dry rotted. etc, etc. Very sad. I drove an hour back to ATL and flew back on Delta the same day. If they would have given me the airplane I couldn't have found a way to make the numbers work with everything it needed. (Engine, prop, panel, interior, fuel tanks - plus a lot of deferred maintenance on the airframe.)

Later that year I saw that someone from Uvalde TX had bought it and I thought good for them, someone found a way to make sense of buying it and getting it back in the air. In early 2015 I see that it had a gear collapse in Beaumont TX (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=172715). The reason I follow up on this post is that every month someone comes on Mooneyspace, just like I did, and is looking for a cheap Mooney.  The best advice, it costs money to maintain a complex airplane, budget for one that has been maintained and don't get stars in your eyes about buying a cheap one and flying it as-is for free. I heard that the guy that bought it didn't insure it, so the collapsed gear cost him whatever he paid for the airplane basically. Glad that wasn't me.

[Schllc]

13 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Well . . . a nine year follow up on this post.

I was thinking of getting back into a Mooney back in 2011 and looked at N1152L. I made a trip out to Georgia with the idea of giving it a close look and maybe flying it back to Texas. Looking over the logbooks when I got there before I ever saw the airplane told me everything I needed to know - lesson learned I should have asked for scans of the books and saved the trip. There had been about 10 logbook annuals with almost no time each year, same AP/IA, same wording, absolutely nothing done to the airplane once I looked at the airplane in person. Fuel stains everywhere, nothing had been lubed in many years, tires dry rotted. etc, etc. Very sad. I drove an hour back to ATL and flew back on Delta the same day. If they would have given me the airplane I couldn't have found a way to make the numbers work with everything it needed. (Engine, prop, panel, interior, fuel tanks - plus a lot of deferred maintenance on the airframe.)

Later that year I saw that someone from Uvalde TX had bought it and I thought good for them, someone found a way to make sense of buying it and getting it back in the air. In early 2015 I see that it had a gear collapse in Beaumont TX (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=172715). The reason I follow up on this post is that every month someone comes on Mooneyspace, just like I did, and is looking for a cheap Mooney.  The best advice, it costs money to maintain a complex airplane, budget for one that has been maintained and don't get stars in your eyes about buying a cheap one and flying it as-is for free. I heard that the guy that bought it didn't insure it, so the collapsed gear cost him whatever he paid for the airplane basically. Glad that wasn't me.

I feel very fortunate that I devoured the knowledge and experience on forums like this while I was looking for my first plane. 
I would give the same advice to anyone looking.

buy an active flyer, interview the owner, people that let little things go, more often than not let the big ones go too...

buy the best plane you can afford and it will be the cheapest purchase you ever make...  look for value, not price..

[larryb]

When buying an airplane it is almost more important to pre-buy the seller than the airplane.

[Pritch]

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, Pritch said:

Yes, the picture is why I went to look at it, which is why I posed the question before traveling over there, "Has anyone gone to take a look at this?". But that picture and the others I still have didn't represent the airplane I saw in person.

[Pritch]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Yes, the picture is why I went to look at it. But that picture and the others I still have didn't represent the airplane I saw in person.

Same with one that I went to look at in the Denver area in 2015, picture looked great but when I got there the left tank was empty and a blue stain on the ground and bottom of the wing.  The fellow who bought it also found a major electrical problem and had to tear out the panel.  I ended up finding mine in SAC that was owned by a hand surgeon that was well maintained.

Pritch

 

[shawnd]

In reference to Parker's message from eons ago - even if you are unable to do an annual as part of the sale, a thorough pre-buy is crucial at a reputable shop, preferably a MSC. Once done, you look at the discrepancies and negotiate the price down. Which, of course, goes directly back into getting the a/c airworthy and spruced up. Most shops will let you convert the pre-buy into annual anyways.

Not sure why anyone would make such a costly investment w/o digging deeper and ensuring its flight worthy. Sad about the gear collapse. N1152L is a beautiful bird, but suffered at the neglect of its owners :-(

[shawnd]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:11 PM, larryb said:

When buying an airplane it is almost more important to pre-buy the seller than the airplane.

Indeed - unless it's going through one of the buy & resale shops. Then it truly comes down to evaluating what you are getting and now who is selling it.