Marauders Cardinal for sale (if Marauder had a Cardinal)

[Eight8Victor]

I used to fly a FG Cardinal. It was a wonderful aircraft but slow as a Yugo. The RG Cardinals are pretty sleek and will match the vintage Mooneys’ speed. I found this nice example on Controller. Asking and selling prices often vary however I feel like the C brand commands a higher price than our Mooneys for similar performance. Looking at this fine specimen gets me excited but then I think about the Mooney I could have for the same outlay and for me Mooney wins. Why is it that Mooney’s are such a fantastic value? and since they are, and there are fewer of them, why doesn’t that drive the values up?

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/184024203/1973-cessna-177rg

[67 m20F chump]

$170k for that?  I think this is a case of “honey I listed it look...no buyers.  Guess I will have to keep it “

 

 

[tigers2007]

Here is the panel in it:




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[tigers2007]

$170k for that?  I think this is a case of “honey I listed it look...no buyers.  Guess I will have to keep it “
 
 

Value in the panel? I recently looked at an almost completed Comanche 400 project with twin Garmin TXi’s, twin 750’s, etc etc etc. Probably $150+ into the panel. Nice bird.


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[EricJ]

That price is not totally out of line for what's there, imho.   Cardinal RGs usually go for a decent premium, and that one has a fresh, nicely updated panel and lots of time left on the engine and prop.   They may not get that full price, but they may get close to it.

 

[rbridges]

ugh, I was expecting a pics of a plane full of ladies.  

[Rwsavory]

I used to rent an RG and took it on several extended cross country trips. It was a very nice flying airplane with lots of room.  Passengers loved it.  I think one of the factors driving the price on these models is the fact that they are well-suited to aerial photography. So, they are moneymakers for some folks.  

[steingar]

Moneys are tight inside for people of wider girth, and they're difficult to get into for folks with mobility problems.  Cardinals have two big doors and more room.  For a little guy like me there's nothing better than a Mooney Ranger.  The speed of a complex aircraft for the price of a trainer.

[bradp]

It's a nice plane.  IMO the only good looking cessna single (with the exception of the Columbia / Corvalis).  

Looks like he's getting what I get - 8 GPH and 147 Ktas.  Pretty efficient for a cessna indeed. 

Beautiful panel work and attention to detail - look at those overlays. 

[LANCECASPER]

Looks like he ran out of things to do to it so it is time to sell and start over.

[aviatoreb]

It looks as like he is expecting the buyer to pay him back for every penny he put into the panel, full refund to him.

[Marauder]

Here is the panel in it:

 

 

 

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What's the old saying? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

 

[Marauder]

30 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

It looks as like he is expecting the buyer to pay him back for every penny he put into the panel, full refund to him.

That's the twisted nature of this market. Take a look at all of the 1970 vintage Cardinals RGs. They all are in the $90k+ range. 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/47828867/1975-cessna-177rg

I am going to say this a million times more. We are own worst enemy. When I see a nice vintage come up for sale and read "ah, that Mooney ain't worth $40k" and then see a ratty Cessna or Piper listed for $60k, you have to wonder what is driving it. Maybe perspective buyers getting the wrong perspective? If you all worked for me as sales people, I'd fire you all!  

Value in a product is largely driven by the value people see in it. It doesn't help when the peanut gallery comes out and says the nuts are stale. There have been a few vintage Mooneys sold for over $100k. I know they weren't posted here. Ever wonder why?

[RLCarter]

177's seem to bring good money, I was looking at them and the Monneys when I was looking to buy. The only thing that tilted me towards the Mooney was Cessnas retracts look goofy when operated and can get spendy when it doesn't work. Oh and the panel not going all the way across on the Co-Pilot side, not sure what that's all about but to me it's dumb looking

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

There have been a few vintage Mooneys sold for over $100k. I know they weren't posted here. Ever wonder why?

They have autopilots. A vintage Mooney with a proper Stec/Century/King autopilot and a WAAS GPS will just about get whatever you ask for it. Unfortunately vintage Mooneys without those two things are going to either sit or sell for very low figures.

[Marauder]

And for those interested. The Cessna 177 RG had a similar production run as vintage Mooneys (made from 1971 to 1978). Cardinals are certainly "vintage" as well.

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

They have autopilots. A vintage Mooney with a proper Stec/Century/King autopilot and a WAAS GPS will just about get whatever you ask for it. Unfortunately vintage Mooneys without those two things are going to either sit or sell for very low figures.

Perhaps, but a number of those 177 RGs either have the "Navomatic" or no autopilot at all. Hopefully this issue for Mooneys will be resolved when the TruTrak or Garmin autopilot become available.

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

Perhaps, but a number of those 177 RGs either have the "Navomatic" or no autopilot at all. Hopefully this issue for Mooneys will be resolved when the TruTrak or Garmin autopilot become available.

Fingers certainly crossed for TruTrak or Garmin autopilots. That would certainly change the game in the vintage Mooney market.

I also think there is a big difference between most Mooney buyers and Cessna buyers. 

[Eight8Victor]

43 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I am going to say this a million times more. We are own worst enemy. When I see a nice vintage come up for sale and read "ah, that Mooney ain't worth $40k" and then see a ratty Cessna or Piper listed for $60k, you have to wonder what is driving it. Maybe perspective buyers getting the wrong perspective? If you all worked for me as sales people, I'd fire you all!  

+1

[tigers2007]

It’s only worth what someone will pay (my fathers words not mine). I just left a bank auction and saw a $2k dump trailer sell for $7k plus 10% premium. They are $6k new...

Maybe Los Zetas will buy it and use it for “business”.


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[Tcraft938]

Just my opinion, that Cardinal is a nice plane with a lot of wonderful additions and enhancements.  However, it is a textbook case of "you'll never get out of it what you put into it".  it looks like someone in their mind said (example), "I paid $60,000 and put $120,000 in paint and avionics in it, so $170,000 is a deal!!!"   Unfortunately, it rarely works that way.  Let's assume for a moment that someone is willing to pay $170,000 or $500,000 doesn't matter, will the insurance cover it for that?  If the insurance does what will their requirements be?  Oh, your a private pilot with 90 hours and no complex time?  Sorry no insurance for you.  As for your question about why Mooney command lower price?  I think It has to do with appearance and perception as well as name recognition.  Cessna is a name that even non-pilots know and chances are a pilot trained in a C-152 or C172 and all the lore that goes with it.  Appearance, to the nervous passenger, the Cardinal looks bigger, which to them means more substantial and that has to be safer, and I don't like this climbing on the wing idea.  I get this when parents bring kids to me on EAA young eagle flights.  Then they look inside, it's so small, etc.  The pilot in me does like the two doors of the Cardinal, the spaciousness of cabin.  However the aviator and accountant in me said, "what will the Cardinal do for me that the Mooney won't for the extra money?"  The answer was nothing, and 70% of the time I fly alone, so who care about a second door or extra space?  The baggage compartment in the Cardinal is not real useful thanks to the main gear housing blocking the doorway, my A&P said my annuals and maintenance would be much more expensive on the Cardinal gear than the Mooney, some parts on Cardinal are harder to get than the Mooney and his opinion was, "if you and another guy buy a nice Mooney and nice cardinal of similar age and condition, the one with the Cardinal will be my meal ticket".  

Those sentiments combined with initial and recurrent costs tipped me the Mooney route.  I think of it as cost per mile :-)  I was fortunate to find a Mooney with great paper trail.  Since owning it I've poured through the receipts of what the previous owner had into it especially with avionics/panel upgrade.  I sincerely feel bad for him now, I could not get half the work done now and stay within the purchase price of the plane.  As the local avionics tech told me, "did you know the shipping tape from Garmin costs $5000?  Yup, when you buy that GTN650 for about $14,000, it's worth every penny then I cut that box open and  the GTN is worth $9,000.  I can sell you some of that tape for $1000".  :-)

End of the day, to each their own.  Do what you want with your money to make you happy and it is well worth every penny.  If both planes were the exact same price.... that would be a tougher question.

 

[Niko182]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Fingers certainly crossed for TruTrak or Garmin autopilots. That would certainly change the game in the vintage Mooney market.

I also think there is a big difference between most Mooney buyers and Cessna buyers. 

I would guess that maybe garmin started working on the GFC500 for the Vintage Mooneys. There's an M20C with a G3x, GTN750, 650, and if you look on the right side you can see the control head of the GFC500 in the panel. don't know if its illegal or not but its there.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Niko182

[DXB]

Looks like a damn nice plane - I'm not sure if it's all that overpriced.  All it really needs is a 7kt gain from one of these installed to run solidly with the Mooneys:

https://www.emapa.aero/Cessna-Cowlabunga-LoPresti-Aviation-p/cessna-cardinal-cowlabunga.htm

I've never flown one, but I doubt it has nearly as nice a control feel?

Dev

[carusoam]

8 hours ago, Eight8Victor said:

Why is it that Mooney’s are such a fantastic value? 

What allowed you to to say yes to purchasing your Mooney...

1) did you know somebody that had one?

2) did you see any flying at your local airport?

3) had you seen one opened up in a maintenance facility?

4) Did you hear the usual falsehoods of tight, small, corrosion, and leaks... and not be able to refute this for yourself?

5) Do you usually purchase the big brand names when buying big ticket items?

6) Did you fly one?

 

It takes a giant leap of trust in one’s decision making to not follow the crowd....

 

Market pricing rules... two buyers looking at the same machine... price suddenly increases...

Two different machines... with only one buyer... how strong is his pull for... speed, efficiency, and safety...?
 

I have done #6 twice... you know you have made the proper choice somewhere about the time the gear is up, and you are climbing out.... I was pretty happy about the time FT was put in place...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Marauder]

13 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Well said. I sold my previous J in less than a week via word-of-mouth last year without saying a word about it here.  It had high airframe time, and was a run out, and didn’t have a WAAS GPS or auto pilot or engine monitor.  Some folks here would’ve said that I should have had to pay somebody to take it off of my hands.

Amen brother! If I ever sell my Mooney, she ain't ever appearing here.