Rusty Pilot Needs Advice!

[carusoam]

Feel like you are in the right place?

-a-

[Marauder]

I've been window shopping for at least a year and reading damn near everything I can...and always prefer to hear the truth. Fortunately, I'm at a place in my life where these types of cost or expenses don't keep me up at night...can't say as much for my bladder though! 

The condition of your bladder tells me a lot. :-). I’m glad that you’re in a position that the economics should not be a hindrance.

There’s been way too many people on the site who got themselves in trouble buying a plane.


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[Stephen]

17 hours ago, carusoam said:

Neither am I... 

-a-

I don't know about that... I think you keep it pithy within any single row of text! 

[StevenL757]

7 hours ago, tmo said:

If you are serious about buying a plane, you did the math and realistically expect to be able to afford it, buy it and then train in it.  Don't "waste" (for lack of better word, English is not my native tongue) time flying other planes, because getting proficient in your own one will give you enough reason to fly.

LTPP (low time private pilot) thoughts only, no certified acronyms to the name 8-)

_{Said the guy that took 3 years to actually buy a plane... ;-)}

Not a damn thing wrong with your English there...great points.

[Air pirate]

My .02 , about what its worth...

• Find a good instructor and get air under your butt in a slower trainer, 172, Cherokee, etc.
• Spend a few hours getting comfortable flying,  navigating,  slow flights, stalls, landings -x-winds, etc.
• Move to some dual in a complex aircraft, Arrow, Mooney, etc.
• in the meantime, look for an aircraft that will fulfill your mission requirements, get some time in a Mooney

I'm pretty new here but there are a LOT of very knowledgeable pilots/owners here and very helpful when it comes to everything Mooney

Best of luck to you!  

[carusoam]

I got the honor of learning how to fly again...

it really makes sense to run through all the steps in a trainer...

Trying to do it in a LB Mooney is Fun, tiring, and can be a bit disappointing as well...

transitioning from C172 to Mooney also has value... sort of a 3D collection of experience...

Don’t feel bad if somebody says start with a C172...

it may be better for you... probably save time and money...

it just won’t make you feel very good when you get the news...   

remember... nobody said don’t do it...

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Buy your final plane and spend time getting it good.    Fly alot so you get good.  Mooney is the right answer.

[tmo]

I very humbly and respectfully disagree with the notion that going to a primary trainer is needed.

Let me start by saying that I have no great natural aptitude for airmanship, but I guess I do OK following checklists and instructions, so I pass my checkrides.  For various reasons not worth getting into I ended up as a 80h TT pilot 4 years after getting my license (which took ~50h of the TT, so less than 10h/year).  So I was basically out of practice, by no means fluent, proficient or anywhere near good.

In June, after 3 years of looking and poking, I finally bought a plane.  N4041H, a M20K 231.  With no complex time, save a hour or two in an Arrow some 3 years ago, with no currency, with nothing but a desire to fly and a friendly FI.

Started flying it in late August (paperwork delays).  With an instructor I get along with well, because he allows me to make non-lethal mistakes and learn from that.  He's never seen a Mooney before, so we spent some time going over the POH, fired it up, and just flew.  We didn't know we're not supposed to do touch-and-goes, so we did them.  The first one was a challenge, but we knew what to expect, thanks to Mooneyspace.  I don't think I ever was close to killing myself.  I did slam the plane down hard once or twice, I did a porpoise once or twice, but I don't think that another 10h in a C152 would have prevented that.

In late September I started flying solo, with my FI's blessing of course.  My first landing didn't happen.  Didn't like where I was, went around, gathered myself, slowed down, and it all clicked.  Flew for a Flight Review to "activate" my FAA license (been flying on my EASA one).  The FAA FI didn't have any major issues with my flying, except that I landed somewhat long, and he didn't like the seating position in the Mooney.  He too was confident enough I won't kill myself that he signed me off.  And a HPA, and a complex endorsement.

In the meantime I have forgotten to raise the gear after take-off, the flaps, came close to busting airspace (the Earth starts moving fast once you start to descent, and the Cessna based reference points have no meaning), have missed the airport I was aiming for because I miscalculated descents (see previous note), but so far no bent metal and the bruises on my ego are healing.

Would I have been better off with a Mooney FI?  Sure!  But there isn't one to be found anywhere near here.  So we did with what we had available.  You can too, and you're that much better off, with easy access to many folks familiar with Mooney - instructors, mechanics, and all of Mooneyspace.

TBH, I think that in a circuit you can fly a C like you would a PA28, if you really think you have to (I don't agree).  Leave the prop forward, leave the gear down.  Start working it into your flow when your instructor feels you should.  Not you, you are not objective, and, if you're like me, you don't know jack.  You have a FI with you for a reason (a number of reasons).  Trust them.

All that said, if you feel strongly about getting time in a primary trainer, or if the FI of your choice suggests you do it, by all means do it.  It will not hurt.

And, as always, treat everything above as random ramblings of an internet stranger.  LTPP, not C-anything.

Edited December 4, 2019 by tmo

[midlifeflyer]

If a rusty pilot comes to me as an instructor, the first thing I want is a baseline check. I want to know what was lost and what was retained. To me that means flying something with some degree of familiarity. It has zero to do with complexity. Even a Cherokee can be a challenge for someone who has only flown a 172. BTDT!

A few basic maneuvers and some takeoffs and landings can tell both of us where the pilot is. Where does it look like a short comeback? What looks like it will need a lot of work? From there it is an individualized plan. Continue building with the familiar or move to the end game transition right away. No preconceptions of the "right" way. And with time in over 30 different types of singles, I don't have any skin in the choice.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by midlifeflyer

[Ibra]

If you are based near a +3km quiet runway and have the right finances and insurance/certificate signoffs just go straight to the Mooney (but find a decent instructor or private pilot who fly the type, just getting comfy in the seat for the first 10h), I personally, see no point flying basic C150 trainer for 100h, you are not learning anything new that you can't learn in your Mooney?

Only when flying to busy/short runways (1600ft long with 10 aircrafts in the pattern) that I tend to appreciate flying a C150 than the M20J, complexity/speed starts to slip beyond my skills 

I also see no point losing interest in flying while having to learn in something boring (just because some did that in the past, that does not mean you should), if you are sure about what you want from your flying just cut thise corners and go for it !

[ilovecornfields]

It’s great reading about everyone’s different experiences. When I came back to flying, I specifically chose to do it in an Arrow because that’s what I was familiar with. There was plenty of new stuff to learn and old stuff to re-learn so I wanted to make it as easy and safe as possible. I got signed off after 3 flights for a BFR and IPC but felt that was a little ridiculous so I did 10 more hours before taking the plane out by myself.

Do you NEED to do this? No. I actually was able to take off the Arrow, fly around the pattern and land without any intervention from the instructor, even after not doing any real flying for almost 10 years, so I obviously didn’t NEED all that time. On the other hand, I realize that flying is inherently dangerous and I try to do what I can to mitigate that risk. I want to be as good as I can be, not just “ok.” (Do you really want to be a “good enough” pilot or do you want something more than that?).

When I bought my Ovation, I was lucky to find a very qualified instructor who had mastered the airplane (as well as teaching) and was able to safely transition me to a much higher performance airplane than I was used to. Then I found another instructor to do more training with because I really wanted to get more than one viewpoint on what I could improve. Then I found another one. I have learned immensely from all of them and continue to do so every time I fly with them.

If you don’t have these resources available then you make do with what you have, but I can’t understand having access to these individuals and not utilizing them. Mooneys are very safe and predictable airplanes, but they will bite you in the a$$ if you don’t know what you’re doing. And unless you have someone who has truly mastered the aircraft instructing you, you really don’t know what you don’t know. I won’t go into causes of accidents since I have no firsthand knowledge, but it has been suggested that there are benefits to flying with someone that really understands the quirks of the airplane you are flying.

As an aside, I think flying the 172 is really fun. I have my commercial checkride scheduled in one later this month and the maneuvers are a blast. I can’t imagine why someone would consider flying in one of these a waste of time. 

[tmo]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I can’t imagine why someone would consider flying in one of these a waste of time.

Because you can spend the time getting proficient with your new plane.  Otherwise the more, the merrier - I'm hoping to do some tailwheel in the summer.

[ilovecornfields]

58 minutes ago, tmo said:

Because you can spend the time getting proficient with your new plane.  Otherwise the more, the merrier - I'm hoping to do some tailwheel in the summer.

You’re just not doing the right stuff. Eights on pylons are pretty fun...

[larryb]

In addition to what others have written, get the medical first. 

I would get a flight review in a rental plane. It may take a long time to find and buy a plane. Why wait to get back in the air?

Trading planes is expensive. Inspections, catch-up maintenance, upgrades, etc. Consider buying one that you'll be happy with in 5 years rather than just 1 year. If you truly want a 1 year plane, then don't upgrade at all. Fly it, fix what breaks, and sell it. 

Resist looking for a bargain plane. There are no bargains in aviation. In the long run the purchase price matters little to your total all-in bottom line cost. Buy the best quality example with the equipment that you want. 

[Ron McBride]

When I got back into flying after a12 year absence, I got my medical, and did a flight review in a Cherokee.   This allowed me to fly several Mooney’s from the right seat.    I still needed a check out in the Mooney, but I had 5 or 6 hrs in them by the time I bought mine. 
During my absence there was a new company called Garmin, I was skeptical about there products and avoided them.  I knew Narco products and was looking for them.  I had to settle for KX155’s.  Little did I know.  I ended up upgrading to Garmin etc.  

electronics cost a lot, buy a plane with the most equipment as possible, but they will get old soon enough.  
 

Ron 

[INA201]

I would concur with the notion to buy the plane you will end up with if at all possible. You will put a lot of time getting to know the plane and possibly work through squawks.  If you know you’ll end up in a J I would just make that the goal. If you don’t foresee taking more than two folks along the C is a great plane. I went from an Archer to a J.  The maintenance and upgrades you do will cost virtually the same regardless of the plane you choose. With a J versus a C you are simply storing more of your money  in the plane until you decide to sell it. One good thing on these planes is they maintain their value in good and bad times. When the fuel prices go up we look great. When the economy gets tight we become a value through efficiency. When the economy is doing well we can haul butt and justify upgrading a little more.  Good luck and best of all make the whole process fun!!