steingar 1,812 Report post Posted December 5 3 hours ago, Cargil48 said: Correct!... Now imagine this beauty reborn in composite construction, for 2 adults and 2 kids (or lots of baggage) as the "short version" of a new line of Mooneys! Priced somewhere between $550-$600 with an injected 220hp engine and built-in O2 system... Fantasy. Composite construction has to be designed, engineered, prototypes, and certificated. Big money. Think about it this way. Two companies started out making composite 4 seat certificated aircraft. Only one of them is still around. It isn't easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmo 53 Report post Posted December 5 Last I checked one could still buy a DA40, not just a SR22. Or a P2010 if you're willing to allow mixed construction (cf + metal) in the equation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cargil48 27 Report post Posted December 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, steingar said: Fantasy. Composite construction has to be designed, engineered, prototypes, and certificated. Big money. Think about it this way. Two companies started out making composite 4 seat certificated aircraft. Only one of them is still around. It isn't easy. Okay. But look now this way: Two brothers with no aviation manufacture background, complete strangers on the scene, succeeded. And a renown brand like Mooney - if they'd started back in 2004/05 under the leadership of Ms. Jahn - would not, why? They could/should have made it in a progressive way. First non structural parts, then the empennage, and so on. The technique was there already and for long, look at how many sailplane manufacturers did it way before!... PS: The technique was there, but not the will... "Plastic airplanes" I heard more than a decade ago from Boeing hardliners in another US forum, referring themselves to Airbus... Edited December 5 by Cargil48 Adding a PS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TGreen 28 Report post Posted December 5 There are no winners in the single engine high performance aircraft game. Sales of the SR22 (turbo and NA) are about 50% of what they once were. And they are the success story. There are so many better places for money to go than into GA in general and complex high performance singles in particular. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooneyMitch 606 Report post Posted December 5 16 hours ago, Marauder said: Unfortunately that’s the catch. We are not flying “their” products. Today’s Mooney Corporation has, what, maybe 20 customers? What we are to the current Mooney Corporation owners is a liability. We are the customers of American Electronic Laboratories, Butler Aviation, Republic Steel, Morrison Group, Advanced Aerodynamics and several others that I forgot about. I agree with you that their customer centricity is non-existent. You would think in all my years as a Mooney owner I’d get a letter from Mooney asking “want to check out our new plane?” I think Stacey from Mooney has been on MooneySpace a few times. Other than that, nada. Their situation is sad. They are in a competitive market and from what I can tell, have a poor approach to business. Just do the math on their total sales under the current ownership. Their margins have to be pretty slim. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro I agree, mostly with your assessment, with one exception. Initially, Dr.Chen made a huge attempt to reach out to us current Mooney owners. This is from my personal experience. At the 2014 Kerrville MAPA convention, and at AirVenture 2014, during his public and press conference presentations to all attendees, he personally thanked us Mooney owners for helping keep the Mooney brand out in the world during the hibernation period between 2009 and 2014. We, the Mooney Ambassadors, the Mooney Caravan, etc ( forgive me anyone I’ve forgotten to mention in this list) were specifically the entities he acknowledged as being most grateful to. Jerry embraced, and provided public acknowledgment and financial support of the Mooney Caravan and the Mooney Ambassadors, in various forms throughout his tenure. He welcomed us, Mooney Ambassadors, to display within the Osh 2014 Mooney tent, allowing us to help promote and talk about the brand to potential customers....... he did the same with MAPA and Maxwell’s in the tent. The first 2014 Mooney auctioned off at 2014 AirVenture..... all proceeds were earmarked to fund the Mooney Museum/Learning Center project on the factory grounds, which he proposed and supported. Again, Dr. Chen welcomed us into his Chino, CA, Planes of Fame Airshow tent/display with the same intent as Osh 2014. Also requesting my Ovation and one other Mooney to be on display at the tent. Dr. Chen listened to us Mooney owners suggestions/input/comments with regards to adding a pilot door on the M20. Jerry even directed, in homage to the backwards tail, and the legacy of the J model, to implant the tail on the M10 and for the M10 to carry the J designation. His attempt to acknowledge and support the Mooney base was quite clear. These were very, very exciting times with the re-birth of Mooney!!! Yes, we can all look back and armchair what went wrong. That’s another subject. However, I can only believe, based on Jerry Chen’s initial efforts on behalf of all us Mooney owners, his efforts and acknowledgment, and support of us would have continued in various forms. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cargil48 27 Report post Posted December 5 4 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: I agree, mostly with your assessment, with one exception. (...) However, I can only believe, based on Jerry Chen’s initial efforts on behalf of all us Mooney owners, his efforts and acknowledgment of us would have continued in various forms. Would have continued if??... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marauder 9,202 Report post Posted December 5 3 hours ago, MooneyMitch said: I agree, mostly with your assessment, with one exception. Initially, Dr.Chen made a huge attempt to reach out to us current Mooney owners. This is from my personal experience. At the 2014 Kerrville MAPA convention, and at AirVenture 2014, during his public and press conference presentations to all attendees, he personally thanked us Mooney owners for helping keep the Mooney brand out in the world during the hibernation period between 2009 and 2014. We, the Mooney Ambassadors, the Mooney Caravan, etc ( forgive me anyone I’ve forgotten to mention in this list) were specifically the entities he acknowledged as being most grateful to. Jerry embraced, and provided public acknowledgment and financial support of the Mooney Caravan and the Mooney Ambassadors, in various forms throughout his tenure. He welcomed us, Mooney Ambassadors, to display within the Osh 2014 Mooney tent, allowing us to help promote and talk about the brand to potential customers....... he did the same with MAPA and Maxwell’s in the tent. The first 2014 Mooney auctioned off at 2014 AirVenture..... all proceeds were earmarked to fund the Mooney Museum/Learning Center project on the factory grounds, which he proposed and supported. Again, Dr. Chen welcomed us into his Chino, CA, Planes of Fame Airshow tent/display with the same intent as Osh 2014. Also requesting my Ovation and one other Mooney to be on display at the tent. Dr. Chen listened to us Mooney owners suggestions/input/comments with regards to adding a pilot door on the M20. Jerry even directed, in homage to the backwards tail, and the legacy of the J model, to implant the tail on the M10 and for the M10 to carry the J designation. His attempt to acknowledge and support the Mooney base was quite clear. These were very, very exciting times with the re-birth of Mooney!!! Yes, we can all look back and armchair what went wrong. That’s another subject. However, I can only believe, based on Jerry Chen’s initial efforts on behalf of all us Mooney owners, his efforts and acknowledgment, and support of us would have continued in various forms. Jerry's efforts sounded like a 1 man crusade. And maybe that is the issue. A company needs to have customer concentric culture to compete in today's market. Especially in highly competitive markets. It's great that he was this way, but obviously it didn't get translated down to his organization. I think it was Bob B and I who were looking over an Acclaim's cowl pretty closely at Sun N Fun (We were taking notes of the cowl openings to compare to Sabremech's cowl). No one from Mooney walked up to us. Heck, Bob & I could have been dropping gold bars as we walked around and they still wouldn't have noticed... Don't get me wrong. I have loved my Mooney for the 28 years I have owned her. But when it comes to feeling love from the factory, I just don't see it. Heck, Lycoming has sent me more stuff over the years than Mooney has. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooneyMitch 606 Report post Posted December 5 16 minutes ago, Marauder said: Jerry's efforts sounded like a 1 man crusade. And maybe that is the issue. A company needs to have customer concentric culture to compete in today's market. Especially in highly competitive markets. It's great that he was this way, but obviously it didn't get translated down to his organization. I think it was Bob B and I who were looking over an Acclaim's cowl pretty closely at Sun N Fun (We were taking notes of the cowl openings to compare to Sabremech's cowl). No one from Mooney walked up to us. Heck, Bob & I could have been dropping gold bars as we walked around and they still wouldn't have noticed... Don't get me wrong. I have loved my Mooney for the 28 years I have owned her. But when it comes to feeling love from the factory, I just don't see it. Heck, Lycoming has sent me more stuff over the years than Mooney has. Again, I agree with you. It’s all quite sad. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DXB 1,716 Report post Posted December 6 Probably the most upbeat article so far: https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/mooney-workersuspect was a member of the Saudi Air Force and an aviation student at the bases-return/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&fbclid=IwAR1jLlu_NK_gSZIBAQ45zU7a5cMV7W52ofqUYwzFgPVtKa6GRCHTz7m6vdw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toto 194 Report post Posted December 6 8 minutes ago, DXB said: Probably the most upbeat article so far: https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/mooney-workersuspect was a member of the Saudi Air Force and an aviation student at the bases-return/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&fbclid=IwAR1jLlu_NK_gSZIBAQ45zU7a5cMV7W52ofqUYwzFgPVtKa6GRCHTz7m6vdw Looks like two links got mashed together? https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/mooney-workers-return/ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carusoam 8,362 Report post Posted Tuesday at 07:51 AM Hey, We know the author... Pia B! Mooney Friend of Jolie @mooneygirl Best regards, -a- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chinoguym20 1 Report post Posted yesterday at 04:11 AM Ive read several optimistic posts and articles in the (fake) news. But someone i met in CA yesterday said that after the late August layoff (which was not posted) and the early November furlough of the remaining 50+ employees not all returned and since the reopening several have quit. It’s unlikely the skills remain to produce aircraft service aircraft and maybe make certain parts. I hope they do find someone to buy into this facility but fear it won’t be to build or support Mooneys! Anyone heard anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amillet 504 Report post Posted yesterday at 05:56 AM On 12/6/2019 at 3:28 PM, DXB said: Probably the most upbeat article so far: https://www.flyingmag.com/story/news/mooney-workersuspect was a member of the Saudi Air Force and an aviation student at the bases-return/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&fbclid=IwAR1jLlu_NK_gSZIBAQ45zU7a5cMV7W52ofqUYwzFgPVtKa6GRCHTz7m6vdw Piqued my interest to learn the connection between the Saudi shooter and the Mooney factory Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
