tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 So, today is the first day in over two weeks when weather resembles something flyable, and it will get worse before it gets better. The plane is dripping wet, inside and out, just like in @jetdriven's 2015 posts. This means that I need to rig up an aquarium pump with kitty litter (aka dehumidifier) and force the dried air through the engine (and throw a couple bags of said product into the cabin). Question is, where is the most proper place to connect the positive pressure dry air in an open (no recirculation) setup and what is the best way to set up a closed (recirculating) setup? I'm thinking that in an open system I should push air through the dipstick to pressurize the crankcase; the dry air will flow into the camshaft area through the open intake valves and escape through the breather line. Catch is, it will also escape through the open exhaust valves, so I'm wondering if I should somehow restrict the outflow through the tailpipe and/or the breather, to make sure the path of least resistance is not through there? Or perhaps I should pressurize not just the dipstick, but also the exhaust and breather and have the slightly pressurized air escape through the intake system? But then I can just leave the dipstick in, pressurize exhaust and breather, escape via intake, right? But that becomes more complicated, and simple is good. So perhaps block tailpipe, pressurize breather? If going closed loop, push air through dipstick, pull through tailpipe, plug breather, treat intake as a safety vent, slightly restricted by the air filter? A pre/heater for the engine is a future project, not right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 There is no way for crankcase air to get to the exhaust unless you have a hole on one of your pistons. For an open system, you can either push dry air into the dipstick hole and let it flow out the breather or force it into the breather and loosen the dipstick and let it flow out there. For a closed system, you will have to connect to the breather and the dipstick tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 I’ll leave the plumbing details to others, except to say that a closed loop would be an order of magnitude more efficient. However you say you plan to use kitty litter, which I don’t think will work nearly as well as a proper desiccant. https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Indicating-Silica-Industry-Standard/dp/B013L31PQ0/ref=sr_1_82?crid=3GFX11L2X8KP8&keywords=dessicant&qid=1575032447&sprefix=Dessi%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) The kitty litter I will use is 100% silca gel :-) just cheaper. Edited November 29, 2019 by tmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 @N201MKTurbo ok, that makes sense, I think. Just to make sure - blowing dry air into the dipstick hole will get it to all the places that need to be protected; in a overhead camshaft engine (automotive, that's what I've worked on) I'd need to worry about the top side as well, but this is not the case here, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amillet Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 If the breather tube has a whistle hole vent (the IO&360 does) it needs to be plugged if you’re injecting the dry air through it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 Good catch on the whistle vent, as also mentioned in the other "dehumidifier" threads. Thank you. On a "closed" system where I pull the air from the breather and push through the dipstick, would covering the vent be good, or should I leave it open as a "failsafe" of sorts? On an open system, fed via the dipstick, the vent is a non-issue, so that's going to be v.1.0 I think. Closed will be v.2.0 and automatic start/stop/dry will be v.3.11 ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, tmo said: @N201MKTurbo ok, that makes sense, I think. Just to make sure - blowing dry air into the dipstick hole will get it to all the places that need to be protected; in a overhead camshaft engine (automotive, that's what I've worked on) I'd need to worry about the top side as well, but this is not the case here, right? The rocker boxes are connected to the crankcase via the push rod tubes. You shouldn’t need to do anything special to get to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian E. Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 I redently built a DIY closed loop dehumidifier based off of the Barker Aircraft design. I modified the concept using two 1 gallon mason jars and a continuous pump. The first jar has kitty litter to catch oil vapors, the second has the silica for drying. Spent $10 on the pump and maybe $15 on the silica. We'll see how it works over time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Brian E. - do you recall the size of the dipstick tube (or wherever you chose to push the dry air in)? Secondly, what did you chose to do about the "whistle" in the breather tube? Lastly, did you put any kind of filter in-line with the dry air? For my first iteration tomorrow I'll do an open loop, just push the dry air in, it will be better than nothing; the second iteration will do closed loop (connect the breather to the silica). I knew I was keeping the old aquarium pumps around for a good reason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 1) First priority engine internals... cam lobes are the most sensitive... 2) Second priority cylinder internals... cylinder walls are the most sensitive... 3) Third priority exhaust internals... 4) Fourth priority, intake internals... Each of these areas seem to be independent of each other, and open to the atmosphere in different ways... Also study up on the various ways of drying your moisture adsorbing materials.... they need to be dry to work best... Using the Finance Administrator’s kitchen oven may be hazardous to your project’s time line.... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted November 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 Actually, second priority is cabin internals, aka avionics - the RH is such that I literally have water dripping off metal parts in there. Hope to normalize using a couple bags of silica gel for now and to set up a low power heater soon. But that's a thread drift, I think I have that figured out. The engine, not so much. Regarding all the internals you mention, what would be the best way to get the dry air in all those places? Keep in mind I'm looking for a short-to-medium term solution, weeks, not months, I don't want to do the whole "permanent storage" SL. I'm afraid that if I started pulling plugs and such, I'd do more damage than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 We have a few threads that have come up over the years.... Where people are controlling temp and rh for both parts of the plane... small home dehumidifiers and electric heaters that get turned on/off using cellphone switches and apps... There is also some gun safe RH controlling devices that have been mentioned... would have to be a big American gun case to be a similar size as a Mooney.... in some climates, instrument / gyro bearings are a concern in ultra low temps... MSers in Canada. Some Mooneys have a convenient drain hole in the middle of the baggage area... helpful if you are draining a dehumidifier... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian E. Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 @tmoI used a stopper from Home Depot for the air injection via the dipstick tube. I brought 3 and returned 2. I believe the one I used was about 1" across the top.I had some 1/4" copper tubing that I "drilled" a hole through the stopper with. On the whistle tube I used the same 1/4" copper tubing and made a sleeve out of some old fuel injected fuel line. The sleeve was about 4" - 6" which covered the whistle vent and allowed the suction side to occur before then. I will take pictures the next time I'm at the hangar. On the external side of the copper line I epoxied 1/8" barbs to the copper tubing to connect to the rest of the system. BTW, I started with an open look system in mind and decided that a closed loop was best* and it didn't require that much more work--maybe 2 - 3 hours in total including thinking & scratching (aka engineering), digging for parts, and epoxy drying. *an open loop system is a losing battle for the silica since the drying capacity of the silica is limited and the open system is working against an unlimited amount of moisture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 15 hours ago, tmo said: Actually, second priority is cabin internals, aka avionics - the RH is such that I literally have water dripping off metal parts in there. Hope to normalize using a couple bags of silica gel for now and to set up a low power heater soon. But that's a thread drift, I think I have that figured out. The engine, not so much. Regarding all the internals you mention, what would be the best way to get the dry air in all those places? Keep in mind I'm looking for a short-to-medium term solution, weeks, not months, I don't want to do the whole "permanent storage" SL. I'm afraid that if I started pulling plugs and such, I'd do more damage than good. I think the easiest way to keep the inside of your plane dry, is toMake a small plexiglas plate that fits nicely into the storm window hole. Then you can latch in place. Attach that to a dryer hose which goes to a 30 quart dehumidifier that has a drain. Set a dehumidifier on top of the bucket or something and then have the drain run to the hanger door and out the front. Keep an engine internal dry is easier. I run a black max engine dehumidifier. Previously I used a Tanis engine dehydrator with beads. It lasts 2-3 weeks before recharging. Has a heater built in. I’m not using this thing now for so it’s for sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 @DonMuncy should know - he has one for his TSIO-360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB4 Posted November 30, 2019 Report Share Posted November 30, 2019 This little guy works great for inside the cabin. Nothing to drain, just plug back in for 12 hours to recharge after medium changes color. https://smile.amazon.com/Improved-Eva-dry-500-Renewable-Dehumidifier/dp/B00BD0FN8A/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=dehumidifier+portable&qid=1575127348&refinements=p_89%3AEva-Dry&rnid=2528832011&sr=8-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian E. Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Here's pics of the system including: -breather sleeve that reaches past the whistle hole - the dipstick tube stopper - and the overall set-up Again, it was a reasonably quick project. Cheers, brian 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted December 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Thanks all. Did the first stage yesterday, after flying the plane for some 30 minutes - great post-frontal weather over the weekend. Have to do v 1.1 today, with a better matching plug for the dipstick tube (the current one required some electrical tape to seal well) and will see about v 2.0 in the future, when I can get a good look at the breather tube. And I need to rig up a nice "carry case" like @Brian E. did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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